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1st fatal at Sun 'n Fun

I just found out about this here this morning. Terry Sack was a very good person, husband, father, and good pilot. I signed off his BFR 6 weeks ago, and have several hours in the Wheeler Express he was flying. I've known him personally for a decade, as he and my father and I were building the same airplane.

Please be careful...Terry will be sorely missed.
 
Did the plane have stall warning device?

Mike_ExpressCT said:
I just found out about this here this morning. Terry Sack was a very good person, husband, father, and good pilot. I signed off his BFR 6 weeks ago, and have several hours in the Wheeler Express he was flying. I've known him personally for a decade, as he and my father and I were building the same airplane.

Please be careful...Terry will be sorely missed.
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My condolances. Man, that's got to be a blow, to have just checked him out and then have this happen.

Since you've flown the plane and knew the guy, I've got to ask -- did that plane have a stall warning device? I hate to be crass, but I've personally witnessed two base-to-final crashes myself so this is a big deal to me.
 
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jonbakerok said:
My condolances. Man, that's go to be a blow, to have just checked him out and then have this happen.

Since you've flown the plane and knew the guy, I've got to ask -- did that plane have a stall warning device? I hate to be crass, but I've personally witnessed two base-to-final crashes myself so this is a big deal to me.
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No it didn't, and after getting several hours in the airplane I would have to assume that it was a factor in the accident. He did have an AOA indicator in the airplane but it was not yet calibrated. Actually, that was going to be a job he and I were going to do later on this spring. With the design of the airplane, any time the flaps were retracted you had virtually no stall warning until the break, which was almost always accompanied with a right wing drop. During the BFR, we did several power off stalls in different flap configurations, and with flaps down you did get an airframe buffer approx. 5-7 knots above stall, which I felt was adequate. Flaps retracted though could have been a problem.

I also want everyone that reads this to know that the pilot himself was one of the most cautious and safe pilot's I've flown with, and he flew his airplane very very well. This accident just goes to show that things like this can happen to anyone, and it's always our FIRST responsibility to fly the airplane safely, and be cautious at all times.

Please be careful out there guys
 
Thanks

Mike,
I feel your hurt.......thanks for sharing. I too, had a recent transition training guy put his RV 7A on its back. An eyewitness/RV pilot said that he came in very slow with a high sink rate, hit hard, bounced and then let the airplane nose over and hit on its nosegear. It dug in and flipped. He's OK but somewhat depressed. Plane's rebuildable.

Thanks again,
 
Flying into an airshow isn't "normal" flying...

As anyone who has ever flown into a major airshow can attest, there is so much going on and the pressure is so high that anything and everything can happen. You're worrying so much about other traffic, maintaining spacing, listening to a non-stop radio, and add to that you're not on your "normal" routine means that you forget basic stuff like watching the AIRSPEED, running through checklists, etc.

I was on short final at OSH last year wondering why the plane felt strange when I realized I hadn't lowered the flaps yet.... :eek:

My best advice for anyone flying into an airshow is to know the procedures down cold before you depart... and make a stop somewhere less than an hour from the final destination to review them again on the ground and get refreshed before you make the last leg in. Also, knowing the "go around" procedure well enough so you're not afraid to use it in case ANYTHING doesn't feel right is very important.

Amid everything else going on, keep thinking "watch the airspeed" because that's probably what is going to get slow and get you in trouble. Coming in too fast and sailing down the runway before touching down might not look pretty, but at least you can go around again if you start to run out of runway.

I've often wondered why the guys running the radios at the major airshows don't say "watch your airspeed" and "use your checklists" every minute or so on the radio just to keep everyone on the ball. (I've even suggested this to them)

Be careful out there everyone!
 
Speed...

ClayR_9A said:
.....

Amid everything else going on, keep thinking "watch the airspeed" because that's probably what is going to get slow and get you in trouble.

....
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Especially when there may be multiple slower planes in front of you...

I agree on the stress level... even the smaller airshows can be bad... I can't think how much stress Osh. or Sun-n-Fun could be during a busy arrival period. Even at a our nearby Copperstate, it's obvious that many of the inbound pilots never read the published arrival procedures.... :(

gil in Tucson
 
chklst

Clay is so right... not that I am better or more experienced than anybody here, but if I go to an airshow.. ALL CHECKLIST ITEMS ARE COMPLETED PRIOR TO ENTERING THE AIRSPACE.... so I dont have to deal with anything but traffic.... CLGUMPS... Carb, ldglight,gas,undercarrage, mixture,prop,speed and switches.... or Gumps from an old timer GUMPS = gear down, undercarrage down, make sure the gear is down, and select gear down...
Best
Brian
 
Sun n Fun go around procedure

It does not appear to be mentioned in the 36 page NOTAM/procedures. So I would announce my intention to do a go around and maintain runway heading until advised differently by ATC.
 
Sad news.. I think a guy in a wheeler express from Ohio overshot the turn and was low and slow and did a stall spin... /2 fatal plus house fire... watch it out there guys...
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Very sad. I just returned from Sun-N-Fun and our flight of five apparently flew the S-N-F arrival shortly after LAL reopened due to the accident Monday afternoon. I can tell you the wind was quite strong, ~330 @25 which pushed you past the centerline of runway 27 if you didn't pay careful attention and compensate on downwind. There were many aircraft making tight turns to get back to the centerline and one of the ground crew in RV parking told me the crash occurred well to the south of the centerline.

My condolences to the families who are having to deal with unmeasurable grief.
 
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Fatigue may have been a factor in this also. I've done a few OSH trips from northen California and used to brag about how I could get there in one day in my speedy RV. Then one trip I decided to split it into two days with most of the flying done on the first day. On the second it was a nice sit down breakfast, a potty break and then an hour flight on into OSH. I cannot tell you what a difference it made. My flying skills and situatuional awareness were much better on the second day. I will not fly a trip like OSH in one long day again. I was probably an accident looking for a place to happen.
Cheers
Tom
 
north wind may have contributed

a factor may have been the north wind which would have been pushing him towards the runway. the downwinds are flown close in. i flew in every day. it is amazing how many pilots are not flying the arrival as posted. mostly at the wrong altitudes. a scan in all directions is manditory.
 
The winds were the same winds that became/were part of that storm that hit the northeast. They were screaming in Savannah.
 
Mike_ExpressCT said:
http://www.aviationfeeds.com/feeds/accident.py?ev_id=20070420X00441&key=1

Here's some initial info on the accident. I haven't heard anything from the NTSB at this point, but have heard rumors that he was put on downwind behind a much slower airplane, forcing him to slow down and change his pattern fairly drastically. Wind may have been a factor which caused an overshoot on his base to final turn.

Still waiting to hear anything official.
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I doubt the rumor is true. My friend was immediately in front of him flying a RV-6 which he landed long, half-way down the runway. From where the accident occurred (I was there) the pilot was well south of 27R. It sure looks like the wind took him off the runway centerline and he was trying to get back to it when the accident occurred.

I'm not pointing a finger at the pilot. We've all been there. It just has the characteristics of a classic stall/spin on final.
 
I kinda wonder about that rumor also as our company 182 was 2 in front of the accident plane and I know he was carrying some extra speed just because he didnt want to get slow. 100kts or better. What kind of speed did the wheeler need? couldnt be much more than that Beechjets come in at 115 or so.
I imagine that the tight pattern (if your not use to it) and the strong wind out of the northwest probably had a good bit to do with it. I see alot of guys doing these 747 patterns in spam cans and dont understand why. I learned on a 2k ft grass strip in a champ and was never out of gliding distance from the runway. Seems that training these days makes the big patterns seem like the normal "right" way to do things.


NOTICE TO ALL WHO FLY TO AIRSHOWS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

DO NOT STALL SPIN ON BASE TO FINAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
DO NOT STALL SPIN ON BASE TO FINAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
DO NOT STALL SPIN ON BASE TO FINAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
DO NOT STALL SPIN ON BASE TO FINAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
DO NOT STALL SPIN ON BASE TO FINAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
DO NOT STALL SPIN ON BASE TO FINAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
DO NOT STALL SPIN ON BASE TO FINAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Its too bad this has happened at both OSH and SnF in the last year.
 
If it can happen it will happen so be prepared.

I have always been an advocate of fly the plane first worry about every thing else later. Went into Oshkosh last year and learned a lesson, its real easy to let your speed get down there. We were late getting in so we sat at Fond du lake for a few hours. At 7:30 we were told Oshkosh was open and fifty planes head out at once. Over Fisk there were a bunch of planes ahead of me. They were all over the place and slow as I back off the speed to keep from running up the back of them I stalled. 50 ft drop and I was back up behind them and catching up quickly, tried to slow down and stalled again. At this point I said the **** with it and broke out of the group, went back to Ripton to start again. Sure glad this did not happen on Base to Final???. If you feel uncomfortable get out!!! (or go round) So you have a chance to try again. Don?t push it !!!!

Last years trip to Osh was full of fun. On the second try I pasted Fisk and the controller phrased my actions to get out and cleared me to Oshkosh, switched the radio to new frequency and silence. Thought this was strange looked down at the radio and it was not working, avionics master switch picked now to quit. Flew the pattern as my copilot played with the switch and got it working on final, long enough to get a request from controllers asking me to switch runways, no problem, as I am flaring I was advised I might need to go around as the plane which just landed had stopped on the runway and was not moving. I was able to land and stop behind him with out a problem. ( Replaced the switch at Oshkosh the next day )

Leaving Oshkosh, sitting on the taxiway with a 10 to 20 others Sunday noon I heard a sudden loud noise which startled me. Sounded like the guy behind me had hit me, I turned on the taxiway just in time to see a war bird run over an RV6 directly behind me.
I saw the pilot getting out as we rolled onto the runway and said thank god he looked alright, did not know there was a passenger until I got home. Very sad, I also discovered I had been speaking with these gentlemen not an hour before.

One last thing. If it can happen it will happen so be prepared. Just to top off the weekend half way home my voltage reg decided to give it up, not a big deal but made me think what else was going to happen. Replaced the voltage reg and have not had a problem with the plane since.

Wonder what the years trip to Osk will bring?.. yes I am hoping to get there again this year.
 
Rear View Mirror

[email protected] said:
Leaving Oshkosh, sitting on the taxiway with a 10 to 20 others Sunday noon I heard a sudden loud noise which startled me. Sounded like the guy behind me had hit me, I turned on the taxiway just in time to see a war bird run over an RV6 directly behind me.
I saw the pilot getting out as we rolled onto the runway and said thank god he looked alright, did not know there was a passenger until I got home. Very sad, I also discovered I had been speaking with these gentlemen not an hour before.
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I remember hearing about the -6 that got ran over by the war bird last year, yes a very sad story. That accident might have been preventable if the RV had a rear view mirror installed to view who was behind him. I have plans to install one before heading to OSH this year because it really makes me nervous not being able to see how close someone is behind me. If the pilot of the RV could have seen the war bird coming upon him, he might have taken the RV into the grass and avoided the fatal mishap. A $2 mirror might just save someone's life.
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