Seeking survival advice for move to D.C. area

I just received notice that I'm to transfer to a job in downtown D.C. in April. I have an RV-6 that I don't want to give up but question whether it there is a way to be happy with bringing it to D.C. I currently pay $100/month for a hanger, live/work 15-20 minutes from the airport, and can jump in the plane and fly at the drop of a hat. I know that I'm spoiled, but can someone of modest means manage to own an RV and really enjoy it in the D.C. area.

Off-line advice would be great. At this point, I have no idea where I'll live and finding an airport/hanger may very well influence that decision.

Thanks, folks.

If you live out in Gathersburg near Montgomery County Airpark then you can hop the Metro and ride to downtown. I have no idea what the hangar situation is there (haven't lived there in 20 years), but your bigger problem is going to be finding a house that doesn't cost $500k!

I've got a buddy that has a plane out there. He recently moved to CO. I'll drop him a line and see if he has info on affordable hangars.

Gaithersburg

I live in Gaithersburg and have my RV7A in a hanger at GAI (Montgomery Airpark). Like most of the airports around this area there are no hangers available anywhere. I pay $335/mo for my hanger here.

As a native of the DC area, I highly suggest staying in MD and not N.VA. The commute is much easier. N. VA is like a big parking lot. I'm sure the VA guys will dispute this though.

You can get a Townhouse here in Gaithersburg for under $400,000. Houses will be more. The Shady Grove Metro station is close by and the easiest way to commute downtown.

Other airports in the area but further out from DC would be Frederick, MD FDK, Westminster, MD DMW, or Leesburg, VA JYO. None of these have reasonable or dependable public transportation into DC.

I know a few people around GAI and can do some inside inquires to see if anything is coming available for you as far as a hanger. There are plenty of tie downs on hard surface here.

Mike

Louise,

I live in MD to the northwest of Baltimore about 60 miles from DC. A lot of DC pilots keep their planes at KFDK - about 20-30 minutes from DC, outside the ADIZ and 2 runways. I don't know the price of hangars, but don't be shocked that it will most likely be in the 300-500/month price range. A lot of RV pilots have hangars at KDMW (Westminster) and their hangars go for $325 per month. Besides the overinflated price (which directly correlates to the housing cost and cost of living here), the waiting list is rather long. I know at KDMW it is about 80 people!

You might have better look in the northern/central VA area.

To get some more opinions you should join and ask the same question on the Yahoo! Mid-AtlRVWing group.

Good luck!

I asked my buddy, who until very recently lived there (with a plane). Here's his reply:

You know, there is really no practical way to do it. If you get too close to DC, you are in the ADIZ. That is a huge pain in the a**. At a couple of fringe (just inside the edge) airports you are allowed to take off and proceed directly out of the ADIZ. However, you absolutely must have a flight plan on file before the controllers will talk to you to let you back in. Montgomery airpark is in the ADIZ big time. Plus, hanger rent there is outrageous. I don't remember the exact cost. The closest airport for me that was not in the ADIZ was Warrenton VA (W66). Took me about 1:15 to get there from Silver Spring without traffic. My hanger cost 225 or maybe 240 a month, which is considered pretty cheap. Sometimes people will double-up and fit a high wing and a low wing in one hanger to save cost. There are usually rules against that, but no one ever seems to check cause people do it all the time. If I were the RV guy, I would bring the plane to DC and deal with the mess. It's better than not flying at all, right?

Personal ad

Cute, petite, fast low-wing tail-dragger looking for stud-ly high-wing aircraft to share your snuggily hanger in the D.C. area and ????? Willing to share expenses. Pictures available.

options?

Perhaps a job change could keep you flying at a reasonable price...the job market is pretty good out there, you should be able to live pretty close to where you want...

Cute, petite, fast low-wing tail-dragger looking for stud-ly high-wing aircraft to share your snuggily hanger in the D.C. area and ????? Willing to share expenses. Pictures available.

Click to expand...

Cute, petite, fast low-wing tail-dragger without hangar rash looking for stud-ly high-wing aircraft to share your snuggily hanger in the D.C. area and ????? Willing to share expenses. Pictures available.

Any chance of a flexible schedule? Week on/ week off, 2 & 2? Then you could
rent a room in D.C. and leave the 6 where it is.

Howie

Bob Brown said:

Perhaps a job change could keep you flying at a reasonable price...the job market is pretty good out there, you should be able to live pretty close to where you want...

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I would echo the above. I live between Annapolis and Baltimore and have to drive 40 minutes each way to get to Essex Skypark (W48). Every time I fly I have to deal with the ADIZ (two phone calls and talk with ATC when airborne -- then you can't have fun until you exit the ADIZ). It's very tough to find a hangar in Maryland and if you do, it'll cost you. Housing and cost of living is very expensive and there's lots of traffic. I'd stay in New Mexico if at all possible if I were you.

A girl's gotta do.....

....what a girl's gotta do to make a living. Right now, that means moving to D.C. Yes, I'd rather stay in New Mexico if that professionally/financially made sense. But, it's not the reasonable decision right now.

I would love to telecommute part-time and, then, probably put the plane next to the family cabin in the SoCal mountains. (Much easier and quicker to reach from D.C. than Carlsbad, NM.) But, that would have to be a situation that evolves....if it could ever happen.

Come to Albuquerque!

The cost of living wouldn't be too much higher than in Carlsbad, you would still have windy weather in the spring, and the job market is good.

There are some possibilities south and southwest of DC

I fly into Stafford (KRMN) on a regular basis. They have hangers that are very nice there. Just outside the ADIZ. Great facility (including an ILS), nice people.

There is an airpark about two miles from Stafford called Dogwood that may have something.

There is Shannon (the older airport in Fredricksburg).

Culpeper, VA has a decent airport that may have hangers.

All these are within about 40 miles of DC. If you chose to live in a place like Dale City (20 miles south of DC) you would have about a 20 mile commute to KRMN.

Bruce
N297NW

I live out just west of Leesburg (KJYO), and am involved with a hangar there. The cost for this very nice newer end unit "T" is $400 a month. Holds two aircraft very easily. We have an LLC set up that airport mgmt is okay with. The biggest problem is the ADIZ!! Not something to be frightened of, but just a HUGE hassle factor every time you get the itch to go flying!!

I live only ten minutes from this airport but put up with it for convenience sake. I do know that KFDK (Frederick, MD) is a really nice GA airport outside the ADIZ where there seems to be a lot of activity. There are usually several T hangars with their doors open at any given time and a lot of GA traffic around the area. They also have a very active EAA chapter there that hosts a Sport Air clinic a couple of time a year. There is also an active glider site here. In short a very active GA airport...sort of like pre - 9/11 anywhere else under the ADIZ.

I'm a sort of Jimmy Buffet kind of guy and I love the freedom of being able to jump in my airplane and going around the patch without talking to a soul if the mood strikes me! A place like Leesburg..that's just not possible! Any of the airports under the ADIZ umbrella, you must call FSS, listen to a 5 minute diatribe of this or that, and then eventually get a briefer so you can file a flight plan.....so you can go around the patch and scratch that wild hair to go flying on such a nice day! This of course assumes that you then called clearance delivery on the ground and got your departure frequency to call as well as a transponder squawk! ...sort of takes the punch out of your thunder if you know what I mean....

The controllers are all very pleasant and know what's going on. So long as they know who you are, where you are going, so forth...there will be no Blackhawks looking for you. You just gotta play by the govt. rules is all. I live close to KJYO, so I put up with it. Moving in to the area now, I would look at someplace outside of the ADIZ for airplane storage, and just plain ol' airport ambiance!!! Leesburg used to have that, and now is almost a ghost town of a freespirited GA airport. I suspect the other airports under the ADIZ can echo this sentiment.

Your biggest issue is that your job will be downtown DC. There are alot of folks who live out in the Shenandoah Valley ( to include Culpeper and Winchester, VA) and commute in to work from there. Very nice airports out there and the cost of housing is quite a bit cheaper there as well! A drive from out there to downtown DC would probably be around 1 and 1/2 hours depending on traffic. Some folks would also drive only as far as the farthest Metro stop, and then ride Metro the rest of the way in.

This is a huge geographical area. I would suggest renting for a little while, and taking the time to investigate the area to see where you truly want to wind up. If you are into water sports, then maybe over closer to the Cheasapeke. Lots of options here...

Hope this all helps.

DC Mess

I spent 25 years in Northern, VA and relocated to DFW area last July. I hate to say it but GA and DC are all but a thing of the past. The ADIZ, which has to be the stupidist waste of taxpayers money I have ever seen (although you won't ever find out what it really cost as that is, of course, classified which means it is a **** of a lot and it will never, ever go away) has all but eliminated any fun flying near the metro area.

But, knowing that aviators will suffer all manner of agony to escape (and after a week of DC traffic escape is all you will think about) here is my advice:

In Virginia - Warrenton (W66) is a cool place to be - several RVs and other fun airplanes and people. The FBO is run by an idiot but that can't last forever as everyone but him knows it and Culpeper is only 13nm for cheaper gas and better service. hanger rent ain't cheap but you can find people to share with for around 200-250 a month.

Now the bad news - its at least an hour on a good traffic day and the last good traffic day was sometime back in the 70's. Figure 2 hours anywhere near rush hour and the only time that would not fit any sane person's definaition of rush hour is somwhere between 1 and 3 AM. These are times from DC. But, unless you have a lot of money and want to live in a $600,000 plus townhouse built in the 40's (probably 1840's) you just ain't gonna live in DC. Since the court struck down the gun ban there today it is a bit safer but I digress....

So you live in N VA (world's most populous parking lot!) and split the difference. You go to the airport early Saturday morning, blow off all normal life chores, fly to regain sanity, and then drink beer and BS to remind yourself that not everyone in DC is a pompous, self-important person convinced that if they just don't get on Russert's show more often Western Civilization will crumble.

Once you get in the air and head away from the ADIZ life is pretty sweet out there but just forget about NM like visability in the summer - some nice clear days in the summer have <4 miles in haze and humidity.

Did I mention I love living and flying in Texas?

Richard Bibb
RV-4 N144KT
T6G - N3518G

Sigh...

rbibb said:

I spent 25 years in Northern, VA ...

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Well... I was only 3.5 years in NOVA. To be honest, it was before I became a pilot, so I can't comment on flying out of the area. Nontheless, and unfortunately, pretty much everything you mention strikes home.

There are good things about DC and the Northern Virginia area...
The Mall
The Smithsonian
The Udvar Hazy
The history (civil war mecca)
The winters (context... I moved there from Canada)

But the traffic, cost of living, and what I can only imagine in terms of complications with flying in the ADIZ are all solid strikes against.

I just hope I don't get transferred back... though the winters are pretty nice...

You make it sound so good!

Thanks, guys. I'm just rippling with excitement to move to this enticing new location. But, great winters? Hmm.

Great winters....?

Louise,

The term "great winters" I find a relative term. I grew up in South Florida and had a somewhat skewed idea of what defined "winter"! Since then I have lived a lot of places in the pursuit of flying jobs including 15 years in Texas and .....yes...5 winters..er..uh, I mean 5 years in Chicago . I think it took the 5 years in Chicago ( which incidently boasts a HUGE GA and experimental following....heh..Oshkosh is only about an hours' flight away!) with it's ridiculously loooooong winters to appreciate moving to Washington, DC. I seem to remember the Cherry Blossom festival gearing up with pics of the Tidal Basin all in full color and bloom, while in Chicago, everything would still be bare for at least another month!!

My flying job took me here to the DC area finally and I am very happy here...at least for now until retirement. The winters are ..."acceptable" to this warm blooded, warm weather lovin' guy.

I also love the cultural huge advantages this area has to offer. If you are into American history, this place is simply awesome. I have littles at home, and I am so glad that they are growing up in an area that is so rich in culture and history....and great public schools. Oh yeah.... the colleges and universities aren't so bad either!!

As I said in my earlier post on this thread, I suggest renting for a little while until you find what area you think the most disirable for you! There are mountains and good ol' blue grass music just to the west of DC, while there is a definite relaxed boating/sailing atmosphere just to the East. Just depends on what floats your boat....so to speak!

My absolute BEST ADVICE.......absolutely DO...NOT...SELL.. YOUR RV. The mid-atlantic RV group around is hugely active and always, always looking for the best breakfast/lunch in this region every weekend of the flying season and probably at least once a month during the cold season....such as it is!

Yes, I know what I said about the ADIZ before and yes, it is a royal pain in the katooosh!!! All of that aside, there is still great comraderie over here! Come on over and check it out!!!

Hope this helps!

Louise,

I can speak from both sides of the DC fence - grew up in Baltimore as a Marylander and am now a Virginian. No offense to the MD guys, but I never knew about general aviation until I moved to Virginia. There just aren't enough small airports in MD. Gaithersburg, MD is indeed has a wonderful airport, but the ADIZ makes getting in and out a real pain. Same for Leesburg, VA. Same for Manassas, VA. You could make a case for living in Gaithersburg (DC commute is do-able) or north of that and keeping the RV at Frederick, MD.

NoVA is not that much more expensive than MD. And I disagree, traffic isn't any better in MD, although I will agree that no matter what you are going to love the area for all that it has to offer and hate it for that very same reason - everyone else realizes that, lives here and traffic is just otherworldly. Frankly, if I had my druthers, I'd rather be living in Carlsbad.

Back to NoVA vs. MD. Like my esteemd friend, Richard Bibb now a newly minted Texan, I am also a Warrenton pilot. Either Warrenton (W66) or Culpeper (CJR) are the best local airports for sport aviation - lots of RV and other experimental and classic aviation types to hang out with and go flying en masse with. Shannon (EZF)in Fredericksburg isn't bad either. Although I am a W66 pilot, CJR is actually a more interesting airport. You'll see rare planes there that you won't see anywhere else. More Stearmans and Waco's than you can count, T-6's, Staggerwing, Swifts, the list goes on. Unfortunately CJR is a bit far to drive, but many folks do it. W66 has an incredibly bad FBO right now, so things are a bit ugly politically.

Cost of a hangar in our area is indeed in the 350-400 range if you have a NEW hangar. I have an old W66 county hangar - cost is 251/month. Your best bet is to find a high wing in a new hangar and buddy up like you mentioned. Or find someone with a Pitts to share. Cost would be closer to 200 to share.

Don't sell the RV, you will regret it. Much beautiful stuff to see just west of the ADIZ. Shenandoah valley, Atlantic Ocean, Chesapeake Bay, and LOADS of airports in western and southern VA to visit. MD only has this on the Eastern Shore, and well, we fly there all the time.

Good luck,

Rob

I'm only an infrequent student pilot, but I've lived in the NoVA/DC area since '85 (at which time I was 3). I am currently living in Stafford and find it a nice area. The Stafford Airport is quite new and nice looking, though I've not flown in or out of it yet. There are at least 4 airports/parks within 30 minutes of stafford IIRC. I've flown out of Fauquier/Warrenton airport and its a very nice place and oriented towards aerobatic/performance/experimental aircraft.

I've not visited them, but you might also look into orange air park, heartford air park and stafford air park. They do a lot of jumping at Orange which might be a pain. I belive all these are outside the ADIZ. There's also a very small, private airpark just off Rt 3. I don't remember the name of it off hand, but I've been there once. Its a grass field, not super long, but probably enough for an RV. There are several EAA members based there, one in a Stearman that does airshows most every Sunday. I suspect hanger rentals would be quite reasonable. I even chatted with a fellow building a kit-fox like plane there.

have fun and good luck

BTW me at Warrenton.

Louise,

To counter the negative publicity, its not all bad. I'm a student pilot in Leesburg and I love it, of course, I don't know any better. Filing an ADIS
flight plan is all I know, but for Leesburg, you walk into the FSS and get weather and 2 seconds you have the ADIS, what's the big deal? Little extra radio hassle, but for me good training.

As for the cost of living, great time to buy, for the overpriced $600k houses last year, they are now $500k and going down. It's all relative, the job market is great. Four beautiful seasons and like any metropolitan area, if you pick the right locale, the commute and traffic may not be a problem. I wouldn't live out in Warrenton and commute, I'd live close to work, commute to the plane.

ajay

ajay said:

...the overpriced $600k houses last year, they are now $500k and going down...

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Problems solved Louise. The houses are dirt cheap now.

n5lp said:

Problems solved Louise. The houses are dirt cheap now.

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Yeah, sort of like Carlsbad. At least, I THINK there is a house that might cost a half-million in town. Well, maybe one of the larger ranches around here?

Actually, I think we may have more aircraft worth over $500k in town than houses.

Small SFH's are $300-350k in Stafford and plenty of airports near by. As an example, Stafford airport is about 7 minutes from my house, Warrenton about 30 minutes, heartford about 20 minutes (I think, never been there, but see the sign all the time) etc

I commute to Arlington every weekday (pentagon exit). It takes me about an hour each way with rush-hour traffic and using the HOV lanes (I ride a bike, but carpool/slugging is popular).

Hi Louise,
I made the move to DC about three yrs ago I am at Shannon EZF Fredericksburg VA ( 540-373-4431)They have hangers open from around 250 to 350 depending on size and door they have a great group of RVers at the field and a active eaa chapter 1099 All of the airports that i know of have waiting list for hanger space and Dogwood is an air park without rental hangers. I landed in Woodbridge VA 30 miles from work and the airport On the weekends 40 min going south to the airport usuallly the same coming back. If I can be any help just let me know
Good luck Kirk

Shannon is about 20 minutes ride from my house, if you ever want a flying buddy (aka passenger who's in love with RV's) or a hand around the hanger give me a ring

Josh
571.243.2064

Woodbridge?

captn kirk said:

Hi Louise,
I landed in Woodbridge VA 30 miles from work and the airport On the weekends 40 min going south to the airport usuallly the same coming back.

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I P.M.ed you with some questions about Woodbridge. Thanks.

BikePilot said:

I commute to Arlington every weekday (pentagon exit). It takes me about an hour each way with rush-hour traffic and using the HOV lanes (I ride a bike, but carpool/slugging is popular).

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Man, I have a national championship jersey on my wall, but I don't think I could have pedalled that fast...even then. Oh, you probably mean a motorcycle

I hadn't thought about getting back on a motorcycle for the commute. Worked well for me when I was younger and in Southern California. Isn't it pretty cold and unreasonable for much of the winter (and wet for much of the rest of the year)? Something to think about, though.

Yep, motorcycle. I commuted on my cannondale when my commute was 20 miles round trip, but now its 80 and without a decent bicycle route so motorcycle it is.

The weather isn't anything like So Cal, but it is ridable year round if you have warm gear and have the temperament for it. I've not missed a day of riding in a couple years. I do ride in the rain a lot, but they make goretex for that. Cold weather isn't an issue at all with warm gear, snow is slippery but doesn't usually get very deep nor is it around for very long. If your averse to riding in snow you'll not miss more than a week or two a year.

In all honesty, the worst part of the year for me is the summer. I always wear full protective gear and its hot when traffic stops in hundred degree weather. Remember lane splitting isn't allowed here (sucks) so the only real advantage to a bike in terms of commute time is use of the HOV lanes. I ride one because I love bikes and really don't care for things that don't lean into turns.

I belive that last year reported temps during my commute ranged from a high of 108 to a low of 7 deg F but the majority of the time the temps stay between 25 and 95.

I snapped this as I pulled into my driveway last winter