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Wandering Voltage - Time for a new 14684!

Ironflight

VAF Moderator / Line Boy
Mentor
After changing out the oil seal on Valkyrie?s Standby Alternator mount on Thursday, I took her up for a quick test hop. All was good, except for an occasional flash of my Master Warning light. This is driven by the EIS directly, but it was so brief (one machine cycle?) that I couldn?t see what was causing in. About 20 minutes into the flight, I got a ?Volts Hi? message on the EFIS, and sure enough, the Main bus voltage was wandering from 12.5 up to 15.2. One of the many neat things about the GRT EFIS/EIS system is the number of voltage readouts I have ? one for each of the three inputs to the EFIS plus the EIS voltage. I watched things as I headed back to the airport (I wasn?t too concerned, since I have two batteries and the standby alternator to get me home if I had to shut off the Main?), and sure enough, I was seeing erratic volts on all the buses. The only thing stable was my diode-isolated Aux battery.

This morning I went up for a quick check to get a little more data, and the wandering got worse while I was still in the pattern. Basically, the Alternator went from normal to occasionally busting 15.5 volts in about an hour of operating time. I killed the main alternator and landed with the backup systems ? no need to risk toasting anything!

I am running with the standard Van?s 60 amp, internally regulated alternator, and had a total time of 386.3 hours on it. During the first hundred hours or so, I was using a procedure where I?d start the engine with the alternator field off, then switch it on. After reading some of George M?s voluminous posts on the topic, I decided that this was an archaic procedure left over from the primitive alternator/regulator days, and that it makes sense with an automotive unit to essentially leave it connected to the ?ignition? switch (in our case, the master). I still have the split master switch, so I can turn it off if required, as I did today. Could the early hundred hours of operation have damaged the VR electronics? Quite possibly. I know that the new unit will only be off for a malfunction!

Now the best part. It?s a Saturday ? I?m not going to get an aircraft alternator anywhere. But I called the local auto parts emporium and asked for a ?Lester 14684? alternator, and hit pay dirt on my third try. (They all had them listed ? the first two didn?t have them in stock). I decided to check my watch as I worked. Five minutes to remove the cowl, ten to remove the alternator. Twenty to make a minor mod to the alternator boss mount (rounded a corner where it interfered with a more robust alternator housing casting), then another Twenty to reinstall, tension the belt, and safety wire. Ten minutes to close up. Heck, I could have done it on a deserted ramp in the middle of nowhere using the tools I always carry in the plane ? nice! The test flight showed the voltage on all busses to be rock solid.

One ?gotcha? for those still building, There are two bolts that act as pivots for the alternator, holding it to the mount. I had installed both of them with ?heads forward?, which seemed to make sense at the time. Of course, I probably mounted that as soon as I had hung the engine, because today I found that I couldn?t get the forward one out ? it bumped in to the ring gear on the front of the engine ? I must have installed the prop AFTER the alternator?. By removing the whole alternator mount from the engine, I was able to get the unit off and back on without removing the prop, but if you are still assembling, you might want to put that bolt in from the rear?.

So ? 385 hours on an alternator. How do I feel about that? Frankly, I looked back at the history of the certified alternators I had over the years on my Grumman, and they weren?t much better than that. In fact, I had two fail much earlier. The cost of the new (rebuilt ? they are all rebuilt?) one today was $112. That?s not really too bad, and it?s nice knowing that I can pick one up at just about any National Aircraft Parts Association store across the country. I am aware of the history of these units ? there appear to be good and bad rebuild shops, and quality can be an issue ? and we?ll see how long this one lasts. With the redundancy built in to Valkyrie?s systems, an in-flight failure is easily tolerated. But if this one dies early, I?ll probably switch to one of the new Plane Power units to get a little bit better assurance of quality.

One other thing that this lead me to do was to look through the Tech Specs of my avionics to see what kind of voltages they can tolerate. I was pleased to see that all of the expensive boxes are happy up to 33 volts (which I expected, knowing today?s electronics). Not that I want to try it?.. ;)

Paul
 
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Great POST Paul, I hate wondering VOLTAGE

Yea what is it with the 14684 that Van sells (sold past tense?). Apparently he has a new vendor of a better bread of 14684; Yea. I told Tom Green a year or so ago that they had issues. There is something about the make-up of the rebuilds or aftermarket clone ND's that Van's supplier sold them.

I wounder it just replacing the voltage regulator would solve the problem. There are many after market VR manufactures and NOT all are good. I think if you can get OEM ND replacement VR, that would be best. Other brands are Victory and Transpo. You could replace a VR in the field. The VR is a module that just bolts in.

Any way GREAT POINT, if you have a 14684 you can get a new one any where. Who knows it may be way better than the one you are replacing and go 1000-2000 hours?

This is one down side of the B&C or even the "Plane Power" units, they are not available at any auto store. However the PP unit could probably be a direct replacement with a 14684.

Why do some alternators last 1000 hours or more and still keep on going and others go 300 hours? I don't know. It could be many things. I do think it is a tough environment, but I also think poor quality aftermarket parts is the big part of the equation. The OEM Nippondenso are top quality and will last way longer than any of today's aftermarket clones. Problem is 14684 has been out of new ND production for a long time. The only thing close in a NEW genuine ND is the smaller 45 amp industrial units. I have one and its a little jewel. That does not mean the Auto Emporium over the counter is not good, just you don't know, rebuilds and aftermarket clones vary in quality.
 
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blast tube

paul,
do you have a blast tube on the alt.? this is the equivalent of 20,000 miles. i would think even a cheap one to do better than that. but i know many have shown otherwise. are you running a pc 680 battery? this short alt life really bugs me.
 
Interesting that we would justify using an inferior part...

The OEM Nippondenso are top quality and will last way longer than any of today's aftermarket clones. Problem is 14684 has been out of new ND production for a long time.
by rationalizing that, although they may fail prematurely, they are readily available...

GREAT POINT, if you have a 14684 you can get a new one any where.
 
I do have a blast tube on my alternator - didn't at first, added it later. Clearly, the failure I had yesterday was a regulator problem, and could have been related to heat in the early hours, or my operating technique in the early hours...or it just decided to give up. In fact, I woudl have replaced just the regulator this time if I coudl have sourced the part locally (and quickly), becasue I'd have rather gone with a "known good" mechanical assembly than with the unknown of a totally rebuilt unit. Now that I have an operatign one, I might try and buy just a reg to keep in my spares.

In terms of reliability, I guess that I have been flying long enough, and seen enough failures, that I simply don't count on the alternator not failing. Even the higher cost and better quality alternators and starters have quit on people. That is why I designed the system with redundancy to handle the failure. Even with extremely high quality aerospace parts, I have seen failures, so I try always to have a backup for every critical function.

Paul
 
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Hey Paul, I think your alt failure is all my fault; a month or so ago when my alternator quit at 33 hrs you sent a PM saying your identical alternator was still plugging along (knock wood!) with 350 hrs on it... I think I must've jinxed your unit.

Sorry, my bad.
 
Ironflight said:
Even with extremely high quality aerospace parts, I have seen failures, so I try always to have a backup for every critical function.
Paul

That should be the one sentence we all burn into our memories. I wouldn't trust my life to any one aerospaced, mil-speced, certified etc part. On the other hand, 2 redundant parts from Radio Shack? No problem.
 
Well, I think 386 hours is pretty good, because mine has all of 182 hours on it over the past year and a half, and it just started doing the same thing. Mine had been pretty steady at 14.6 to 14.8. On a 3 hr. flight last night, I was getting more than occasional flashes from my EIS Master Waring Light. It was jumping up to 15.1 and occasionally as high as 15.3. I use a PC680 battery and I've had a blast tube pointing towards the aft end of it the whole time.

I guess it's time for a change. I understand where to get one and am aware of Van's part number. Please forgive my ignorance, but what is the specific part number at NAPA you looked for?

Thanks, Mike
 
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