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RudiGreyling
02-02-2007, 04:40 AM
Hi Guys,

I was looking for strobes for a while and got a very good special which I think is worthwhile to pass on. I bought mine yesterday. Use the info if you like..

The special is on at the moment: $160 for a 60Watt, 4 head upgradable to 6, multipattern, 5 Year Guarentee. Normal price is $240. It looks like the unit is manufactured by Nova, cause it has the same form factor, product ID numbering etc. The talk is Nova was started by ex Whelen employees, so it should be good. Nova Reference Site: www.strobe.com.

What I like is that at 60W. That is the same as the Nova AVIPAK designed specifically for Aviation, but at a much cheaper price. For AVIPAK Reference: http://www.strobe.com/products.asp?id=60&view=product normal Avipak price is $400 !!! that equates to a $240 saving!

Now I hope they ship mine, before all you okes in the USA grab all the stock! :D

Do you own homework and decide if it will work for you...
Here's the direct link for the special, it is hidden deep in the www . strobesnmore. com website:
http://strobeguy.safeshopper.com/90/2277.htm?248
http://a248.e.akamai.net/f/248/5462/2h/strobeguy.safeshopper.com/images/bv0slpdt.jpg
Strobes N' More Professional System 4
System includes:
1 - 60 Watt 6 Outlet Multipattern Strobe Power Supply
4 - 32 Watt Undercover Strobe Tubes
4 - 15 Foot Strobe Power Cables with connectors
2 - Power and Control Harnesses

Features:
*5 Year Warranty
*15 Flash Patterns
*2 Diagnostic Indicators, for trouble and normal operation at a glance.
*Simple 1 Wire Flash Pattern Control for easier wiring.
*Total output control allowing the maximum output available to installed strobe heads.

We will have these systems on sale for a limited time as an introductory special, so don't wait.

JohnR
02-02-2007, 06:12 AM
Thanks Rudi! I actually had that set on my list as a possibility but had missed the sale. I just ordered a set myself. :)

jcoloccia
02-02-2007, 07:01 AM
I e-mailed them about a month ago asking what, exactly, was different between the regular drivers and this super special aviation driver that makes the aviation one worth 2 or 3 times more (other than the fact it has an picture of an airplane on it). Their response: "The aviation driver was custom built to exacting specifications, blah blah blah, aviation, blah blah blah, airplane more money..."

There's also these guys:

www.gs-air.com

They also use "custom" Nova driver (the HR in the part number stand for Half Rate). Somehow, though, they manage to sell it at a reasonable price, not the ridiculous $300 that some peddle it for.

The one thing to watch out for is too high of a strobe rate. There's a spec for how fast the strobes must go and there's an upper limit.

jcmcdowell
02-02-2007, 07:20 AM
Cheaper than what I was looking at by about $240...

Thanks...

DanH
02-02-2007, 09:06 AM
John makes a good point about flash rate.

FAR 23.1401(c): Flashing characteristics. The arrangement of the system, that is, the number of light sources, beam width, speed of rotation, and other characteristics, must give an effective flash frequency of not less than 40, nor more than 100, cycles per minute. The effective flash frequency is the frequency at which the airplane's complete anticollision light system is observed from a distance, and applies to each sector of light including any overlaps that exist when the system consists of more than one light source. In overlaps, flash frequencies may exceed 100, but not 180, cycles per minute.

The NOVA Superpak606X, which seems to be the same as the Strobes 'n More Pro System 606, lists a flash rate of "4 flash bursts alternating, 140 quad flashes per minute" or 2 flash bursts alternating, 125 double flashes per minute".

The NOVA Avi-Pak lists 85 quad and 100 double flashes per minute.

At first glance it looks like the 606 systems have a flash rate that is too high, but perhaps not. Note the lines in 23.1401(c) regarding sectors, and then consider the 606 specification. Does "alternating" mean every bulb flashes 140 (or 125) times per minute, or that all bulbs together flash a total of 140 (or 125) times, each in turn? If they flash in turn, the 606 would be legal given that you can't see all three sectors (left,right,tail) at one time.

RV_7A
02-02-2007, 11:05 AM
The X-Pak 604 is what I recommend for everyone using my LED Nav Lights.

http://strobeguy.safeshopper.com/11/1806.htm?248

-Jeff

DanH
02-02-2007, 02:25 PM
Jeff,
<<The X-Pak 604 is what I recommend for everyone using my LED Nav Lights.>>

So what do you observe about it's flash rate? Does every bulb flash 140 times per minute in the quad flash mode or 125 times in double flash?

mdredmond
02-02-2007, 02:50 PM
From their installation mannual:


# Flash Pattern Description
1 Quad Flash 4 Flash bursts alternating, 140 Quad Flashes Per Minute.
2 Quintuple Flash 5 Flash bursts alternating, 140 Quintuple Flashes Per Minute.
3 Mega Flash 1 Flash burst alternating, 700 Flashes Per Minute.
4 Double Flash 2 Flash bursts alternating, 125 Double Flashes Per Minute.
5 Single Flash 1 Flash burst alternating, 200 Single Flashes Per Minute.
6 Twin Single Flash Two Single Flash bursts before alternating. 120 Twin Single Flashes Per Minute.
7 Twin Double Flash Two Double Flash bursts before alternating. 100 Twin Single Flashes Per Minute.
8 Triple Flash 3 Flash bursts alternating, 140 Triple Flashes Per Minute.
9 Twin Triple Flash Two Triple Flash bursts before alternating. 70 Twin Triple Flashes Per Minute.
10 Twin Mega Flash Two Mega flash bursts before alternating. 350 Twin Mega! Flashes Per Minute
11 Triple-Mega-Bang Three Flashes alternating then one Single Flash. 76 Flashes Per Minute.
12 Warble 6 Single flashes alternating at 450 FPM, 6 single flashes alternating at 860 FPM.
13 Phased Mega Flash 1 Flash burst alternating, Flash rate varies from 360 FPM to 860 FPM
14 Single-Quad Single Flash - Quad Flash combination pattern.
15 Cycle Flash Two warble flashes, Two Quad Flashes, Two Mega Flashes in a continuous cycle.

RV_7A
02-02-2007, 03:01 PM
Here is where I got my info and compared. The wording is a little different however they both seem to meet the criteria.

NOVA X-PAK 604 Data Sheet (http://strobe.com/docs/xpak604_install.pdf)

EX-AVI-PAK (http://www.creativair.com/strobe-power-supply-p-37.html)

I did note the X-PAK 604 provides only low power double flash mode as compared to the EX-AVI-PAK which does high power in double flash mode.

-Jeff

RudiGreyling
02-05-2007, 02:09 AM
The X-Pak 604 is what I recommend for everyone using my LED Nav Lights.

http://strobeguy.safeshopper.com/11/1806.htm?248

-Jeff

Hi Jeff,
Ditto man, looks like the special is a new "606", at a good price, meaning place for 6 heads, it looks a little better than the 604, at a good price with the strobe heads.
Regards
Rudi

DanH
02-05-2007, 08:07 AM
I called Nova this AM and confirmed the flash rate. The stated flash rate in the spec sheets is the total for all sockets.

Odd numbered sockets flash together, as do even numbered sockets. If you connect the wingtip strobes to odd numbered sockets and the tail strobe to an even numbered socket, you should have a legal flash rate. Viewed from either side (in quad flash mode) you would see 140 total flashes, 70 from a wingtip alternating with 70 from the tail strobe. As I read FAR 23.1401(c), that is legal because the wing and tail are treated as two different overlapped sectors, and the max allowed is thus 180 flashes per minute.

Yeah, I ordered the Strobes 'N More kit. Rudi, thanks for the tip!

Anybody want to talk about Luxeon nav lights? Looks like 1, maybe 2 per side might be bright enough.

MTBehnke
02-05-2007, 11:26 AM
The FAA requires a minimum intensity of 40 candles straight ahead, reducing to lower values from the side. The Luxeon datasheets don't provide an intensity value, and I haven't found one published anywhere. The datasheet does provide values for luminous flux (measured in lumens), which is a completely different measurement. Intensity and luminous flux are related, but cannot easily be converted from one to the other.

I developed a spreadsheet model that uses the published flux and light distribution patterns to estimate values of the intensity of these LEDs. Based on the model, I believe the peak intensity of the red LEDs to be about 10 candles and the green LEDs to range from 13.6 to 18 candles. The intensity drops significantly with less than 350 mA of current and without an adequate heat sink.

I don't have any specific experience with light distribution modeling, so I could be way off base with this. I'd be glad to share my spreadsheet, especially if there is anyone with an engineering background in this type of modeling to review my approach.

RV_7A
02-05-2007, 11:31 AM
LUXEON LED NAVS (http://www.jeffsrv-7a.com/LEDPROJECT1.htm)

-Jeff

Pirkka
02-05-2007, 04:05 PM
Now when you (DanH and Mike) get Lumileds (Luxeon) in to discussion, let's get on... ;) I've also planned to do LED navlights and stobos but not yet planned too much because the development is going so fast at this field that if building something now it is out-of-date in one year. Or waiting one year more you'll get a much better performance or you can do same with less LEDs.

Only hard thing I see also with LEDs is that also they will heat up in a long run. Even efficiency would be high, they are just so small that some kind of cooling will likely have to be considered. Assuming that they are driven at highest rated continous currents.

But I wish to see how you, Mike, have calculated those luminosity and Candelas... I would say that with LEDs we have now and what is coming out we should easily archieve any ancient specification. And I would also use more LEDs as Jeff has done and drive them with lower current if they will become too bright. Few K2s ain't cost much anyway.

Stobo part should be even easier: as the pulse lenght is so small compared to the pause between blinks the LED can be driven much higher currents than it is ment to. It usually breaks because it heats too much so therefore currents has limited somewhere but when driving:pause ratio is very low, it actually will handle high current pretty well (at least IR-leds does). However as specified "long" peak currents for Lumileds are already pretty high, don't know how wise it is to overdrive it anyway. At least good (=expensive) capacitor next to the LED should provide much better performance.

As driving voltage of Lumileds is quite high, it might be more wise to put only three of them in serie. Putting four in the serie may already limit the current as you need some serie resistor anyway. Also what can be seen from Jeff's LEDs is that there is plenty of space to put even more LEDs if needed. Space shouldn't be limiting factor here.

One more thing to consider, which is visible also at Jeff's LEDs is that visible intensity for eye for different colors vary and intensity what LEDs give out vary also between colors. So if we take a look Jeff's pictures taken at dark, do red and green look same to you? So IMHO circuit should be optimized to drive either red or green color as it ain't big deal.

Here is something which might get you somewhere: http://www.caves.org.uk/led/foot1.pdf I've also found one good calculator from web to calculate these things, but I'm now on a business trip and can't access my home favorites for few days. It's way over midnight here so I got to get some sleep now. :eek:

sslayden
02-06-2007, 09:37 AM
Does anyone have any ideas about how to mount the strobe and the position light in the bottom rudder fairing? I've typically seen a combo strobe / position light in the tail such as:

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/whelentaillights.php

Also, has anyone seen a lense for the tail strobe?

Pirkka
02-06-2007, 02:24 PM
Does anyone have any ideas about how to mount the strobe and the position light in the bottom rudder fairing? I've typically seen a combo strobe / position light in the tail such as:[...]
Also, has anyone seen a lense for the tail strobe?I can handle the electronics but this is the harder part. Wing tips are easy as something similar than Jeff has is at least what I'm looking for. But as you say the tail light is more tricky. I do have couple of plans how to do it:

a) Buy used (cheap) and remove bulp and replace it with leds. Propably some kind of reflectors might be good... could be aluminium as in wingtips. Would be defenitely easiest way but might cost a bit more than the B-alternative.

b) Build everything itself. I've feeling that the hardest thing would be clear covers (lense). Anyone familiar doing something like this?

DanH
02-08-2007, 08:10 PM
The 606 kit from Strobes N" More arrived today, on time and as promised. Good tip, thanks Rudi.

Excellent question about a combo tail and strobe light. The obvious (but expensive) way is the Whelen tail light, which I hope to avoid.

Seems like everything comes down to "how many of which LED at what current?"

Gotta do some reading about lighting terms (candles, lumens, etc). I'm starting from zip on this subject, so education efforts are welcome.

MTBehnke
02-08-2007, 08:38 PM
Here's a good reference for building different circuits to deliver a constant current to LEDs:

Constant Current Circuit (http://www.onsemi.com/pub/Collateral/AND8109-D.PDF)

My current thinking is to use the option in figure 2. Because I want to have 6 Luxeons in each wing, I plan to double this circuit in each wing with three lights in parallel for each. A 3.6 ohm resistor should deliver 350 mA. I think you need to allow for a drop across the regulator of about 2-3 volts in addition to the resistor and LEDs.

Paul Eastham
02-08-2007, 10:30 PM
I developed a spreadsheet model that uses the published flux and light distribution patterns to estimate values of the intensity of these LEDs. Based on the model, I believe the peak intensity of the red LEDs to be about 10 candles and the green LEDs to be about 12 candles. The intensity drops significantly with less than 350 mA of current and without an adequate heat sink.

Nice job; this is pretty close to what I have measured experimentally, perhaps slightly higher. That's why I run 5 red and 4 green 1W lambertians. I tried to do a bunch of calculus myself to figure out the theoretical candle output and came up with something a bit higher than your numbers -- Initially I thought I could get by with 4 and 3.

As for cooling, I put them on a big piece of aluminum (use neutral-base luxeons or get some special noncondctive thermal epoxy), and my lens cover is not so tight so I figure there will be a nice breeze.

Paul Eastham
02-08-2007, 10:36 PM
Here's a good reference for building different circuits to deliver a constant current to LEDs:

Constant Current Circuit (http://www.onsemi.com/pub/Collateral/AND8109-D.PDF)

My current thinking is to use the option in figure 2. Because I want to have 6 Luxeons in each wing, I plan to double this circuit in each wing with three lights in parallel for each. A 3.6 ohm resistor should deliver 350 mA. I think you need to allow for a drop across the regulator of about 2-3 volts in addition to the resistor and LEDs.

I used a similar design. One gotcha that may be an issue is that some of the LM317 parts I found are not rated for temps at ~freezing or below, so if you're putting this out on the wingtip you may want to search for the lower-temp part. They will warm up with use but will they start up below the rated temp? I don't know.

Also watch the power rating for your sense resistors, they will dissipate a lot of juice (and will get hot, as will the LM317 itself) at luxeon currents. Heatsinking the LM317s may be necessary; it was on mine.

bullojm1
02-09-2007, 06:40 AM
My current thinking is to use the option in figure 2. Because I want to have 6 Luxeons in each wing, I plan to double this circuit in each wing with three lights in parallel for each. A 3.6 ohm resistor should deliver 350 mA. I think you need to allow for a drop across the regulator of about 2-3 volts in addition to the resistor and LEDs.

This could work, but you will be generating some unnecessary heat through LM317 and the resistor, which equates to more current needed / less efficiency. Check into the LuxDrive constant current power supplies at http://www.theledlight.com/luxeonled_drivers.html . They have 350mA, 700mA and 1000mA ratings models.

DanH
02-09-2007, 07:56 AM
Keep it up guys; the students are all ears.

Ok, looks like a max of six 1W per wingtip, red and green. Do I correctly understand that white (the taillight) will require fewer LEDs?

Dumb question time: A single 5W does not equal five 1W?

jcoloccia
02-09-2007, 08:03 AM
Keep it up guys; the students are all ears.

Ok, looks like a max of six 1W per wingtip, red and green. Do I correctly understand that white (the taillight) will require fewer LEDs?

Dumb question time: A single 5W does not equal five 1W?

Luminosity aside, if you're concerned with coverage five 1W's are much easier to work with than a 5W. You can just bend the LED leads and aim them wherever you need.

bullojm1
02-09-2007, 08:34 AM
Ok, looks like a max of six 1W per wingtip, red and green. Do I correctly understand that white (the taillight) will require fewer LEDs?


Dan,

Check out FAR 27.1391: http://www.flightsimaviation.com/data/FARS/part_27-1391.html

The rear position light needs to be at least 20 candles, whereas the forward green and red position lights need to be at least 40 candles. Be aware that there is also maximun intensities of the lights, as dictated in FAR 27.1395 : http://www.flightsimaviation.com/data/FARS/part_27-1395.html.


Simple answer, yes, the tail light will require fewer LED's.

jdeas
02-09-2007, 11:03 AM
Guys,
Would it be legal to mount your strobe on the top of the rudder and the position light at the bottom? I don't much care for the dual purpose sockets.

A few notes on LED's.
LEDs are current driven devices. Because you are controlling the current, the regulator's heat is directly related to voltage drop.
Put as many LED's in series as practical until you run out of voltage AT YOUR LOWEST EXPECTED BATTERY VOLTAGE (Plus regulator drop).
This will keep you from wasting power and generating unwanted heat.
Using more low power LEDs in several 'strings' addresses the reliability and heat issues.

Also keep in mind that different color LED's have differnt forward voltage drops. What works for red will not work for green and white!

LM317 regulators in parallel can also have stability problems. I have seen them Osc at 70MHZ! A small 1u capacitor across the supply right at the regulator is cheap insurance against Osc.

bullojm1
02-09-2007, 11:26 AM
Would it be legal to mount your strobe on the top of the rudder and the position light at the bottom? I don't much care for the dual purpose sockets.



As far as I know, there is nothing in the FAR's that dictate where on the rudder the strobe should be mounted, but you must have proper coverage as defined in FAR 23.1401: http://www.flightsimaviation.com/data/FARS/part_23-1401.html?marked=anticollision

The only issue with mounting the strobe high would be there isn't much room on the aft end of the top rudder tip, so some fiberglass work would be needed. Also, you would be adding more weight to the tail by running an extra 3' or so of the heavy strobe wiring.

One idea would be to keep the strobe down low and put your LED tail position light up high, because most likely that will be a lower profile than the strobe. The other thing you could do is to do away with the strobes on the rudder and put them on the aft end of the wingtips.

Sparky
02-09-2007, 07:56 PM
Here's how I am doing the strobes and position lights...

I chose the NOVA REG4-80 strobe power supply. It supplies 20 watts to each strobe light regardless of how many are connected. In an unregulated supply the power to each strobe is determined by how many strobes are connected. In the unregulated designs if a single strobe is connected to one of the connector pairs (odd or even) it would receive 40 watts (in an 80 watt supply with four stobe outputs). Also, in an unregulated 4 strobe 80W supply, if you have two strobes connected to a connector pair each would normally receive 20 watts of power. But, if one strobe burns out the other would then receive the full 40 watts. This could quickly burn out the other strobe as most are not rated that high. The Whelen tail light/stobe will handle 40 watts, but my wingtip strobes are only rated at about 30 watts.

The 2 wingtip strobes flash synchronously at about 70 flash cycles per minute and the tail strobe flashes alternately with the wingtip strobes also about 70 flash cycles per minute, so the most flash cycles you can see is about 140 flash cycles per minute. This is within the FAR requirements.

Here are a couple of pictures...

(I've enclosed the wingtip strobes in cardboard tubes to protect my camera from the bright flashes)
http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/9594/img06561nd1.jpg

http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/5783/img06571xf0.jpg

I also designed LED nav lights but they're not done yet. They will have 6 Luxeon Star 1W LED's on each wingtip -- 3 facing forward and 3 facing outboard. The Luxeons are mounted on heat sinks (using Arctic Alumina thermal epoxy) that are then mount to an aluminum plate. The aluminum mounting plates will also house the wingtip landing lights and strobes and will be covered with plexiglass mirror material so that no screws will show and only the Labertian (sp?) lense of the Luxeons will protrute. I use constant current drivers called "Buck Toot" manufactured by LUXDRIVE to provide the 350 mA drive to each set of 3 LEDs. They look great, and should really look nice when finished. Here's what I've got so far...

BuckToot
http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/2535/img17081hj2.jpg

These images don't really do justice to the brightness of the Luxeons -- they are retina-burning bright when you look directly at them
http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/5405/img0942mediumrv6.jpg

http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/4493/img0943mediumht5.jpg

MTBehnke
02-09-2007, 08:57 PM
One thing my spreadsheet can help with is to overlay the light output of up to six Luxeons at different angles to see the overall output. In the case below, I have six of each, four angled 20 degrees outward to match the angle of the rear of the wingtip cutout, and two more angles out 40 or 60 degrees out.

http://img235.imageshack.us/img235/5586/luxeonnavintensityfc7.gif

Of course, meeting the minimum FAA requirements is the easy part. I'd be very surprised if most of the layouts conform with the maximum intensity limits beyond the normal 0 to 110 degree coverage zones.

az_gila
02-09-2007, 09:20 PM
.....
Of course, meeting the minimum FAA requirements is the easy part. I'd be very surprised if most of the layouts conform with the maximum intensity limits beyond the normal 0 to 110 degree coverage zones.

Mike,

This is were the geometry of the wing tip mount comes into play. A low, solid baffle an inch or two out from the LEDs should be able to provide a physical cut-off to prevent light spillage outside the 110 degrees mark...

Neat spreadsheet display!

What would happen if you added 2 more reds at 30 and 60 degrees?

gil in Tucson

Pirkka
02-10-2007, 02:22 AM
This thread will soon have everything need to do LED lights. Not bad.

I had already earlier in my mind few links and now I can give them. I thought that this CandlePowerForums came from this site but couldn't find it with search tought. :confused: Anyway, I quess this (Candle Power) forum pretty much equals Van's Airforce if you want to know about LEDs and such. http://candlepowerforums.com/

This page has some basics about LEDs: http://led.linear1.org/ and the best part is Candela to Lumens conversion wizard http://led.linear1.org/lumen.wiz

And can't believe nobody yet didn't link Lumileds page here http://www.lumileds.com/ altought it is not too hard to find. However you easily notice that as I earlier said, the luminosity will increase fast in the future as there are a lot of suitable applications for high power LEDs. Check out Company Info > Press Room > January 23...

One thing which doesn't seem to be highlighted yet here is that stobos will use pretty high currents. Especially (simplified a bit) if you are using LED stobos where the luminosity is proportional to the current and current is proportional to the voltage, having a voltage drop will affect greatly to luminosity you are getting. Peak current driven to the strobing LED can be high and therefore also voltage drop across the wire is too. To calculate voltage drops I've found another good site: http://www.securityideas.com/howtocalvold.html To avoid problems with voltage drop, I would design system so that the supply voltage would go near the LEDs. This would require control line (one more wire) to the system if the timer is in the cockpit. This would allow to parallel some low ESR (yes, they do cost a lot more than regular capacitors) capacitors near the LEDs. As if driven just three LEDs in a serie that would allow also diode between supply and LEDs just in case.

Sparky: Have you measured how high temperatures you get with your LED positioning lights? You seem to have big cooling elements so I wish to know how much heat those LEDs really produce.

Edit: just typos

MTBehnke
02-10-2007, 04:31 AM
Pirkka,

There is a thermal design guide available at the Luxeon site included amongst the links to the datasheets. Here's a direct link http://www.lumileds.com/pdfs/AB05.pdf . It includes proper heat sink sizing.

The datasheets (http://www.lumileds.com/pdfs/DS23.pdf) includes graphs that show the reduction in intensity to account for thermal effects. A summary is below:

Derating LED intesity to account for temperate:
Tjunction Green Red
25C 100% 100%
40C 95% 85%
60C 86% 70%
80C 78% 55%

Note: Tjunction = ambient temperature + temperature due to power consumption

If you assume Tambient = 22C (72F) as an outside air temp, and with very effective heat sinks, best case would be an 18C increase, resulting in Tjunction = 40C. So the 10 and 12 candle outputs I noted before should be reduced. If you assume a 38C (100F) air temp the reduction would be even greater.

Sparky
02-10-2007, 08:35 AM
Pirkka,

Although the heat sinks appear large, they are about the minimal requirement for 3 closely spaced 1 W LUXEON Stars. Total surface area is about 36 sq inches. I have not measured actual temperatures, but after having them on for several hours at room temperature in still air with the cooling fins oriented vertically the heat sinks are just warm to the touch.

The aluminum "backplate" of the LUXEON stars are not electrically isolated, so you can't just attach them to a electrically common point (aluminum heat sink) without providing isolation. The Arctic Alumina thermal epoxy provides this electrical isolation while acting as an excellent thermal conductor. And this epoxy is STRONG. These babies are attached permanently.

Here's a close-up of the Luxeon stars and heat sink assembly before wiring...
http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/4643/img08141kv1.jpg

MTBehnke
02-10-2007, 09:33 AM
What would happen if you added 2 more reds at 30 and 60 degrees?



The red and green luxeons have different intensity patterns. Here's a comparison of a single red and a single green:

http://img65.imageshack.us/img65/734/luxeonnavintensity3yi5.gif

If I add one red LED, (5 at 20 degrees and 2 at 40 degrees) gives:

http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/7880/luxeonnavintensity2dl3.gif

I'd be glad to send anyone a copy of the spreadsheet and you can play with various configurations - just send me a PM with your email address.

the_other_dougreeves
02-10-2007, 11:02 AM
It looks like everyone is using the Lux I drivers. In the little experimenting I've done and what I've read, the Lux III driver is a great choice. It can be driven at up to 1000mA and can deliver up to 100 lumens. Same size, nearly same price. You should be able to use 2x Lux IIIs for the nav lights.

Paul Eastham
02-10-2007, 11:50 AM
The aluminum "backplate" of the LUXEON stars are not electrically isolated, so you can't just attach them to a electrically common point (aluminum heat sink) without providing isolation.

This is true of some luxeons but not all. My 1W red/green Stars are neutral (according to the data sheet and under test), so I was able to just screw them onto a piece of angle. This is probably not as easy as the epoxy though.

The "naked" emitters are all non-neutral on the back, I believe.

MTBehnke
02-10-2007, 04:24 PM
I'll credit Paul Winkels (Sparky) with finding a bug in one of my spreadsheet formulas which caused it to underestimate the intensity of the green LED. Instead of a peak intensity of 12 candles, it looks like it's a range of 13.6 to 18 candles. The luxeon datasheet provides a range of values for the light distribution, resulting a range of intensities. Unfortunately the red still looks to peak at 10 candles.

For those I've sent my spreadsheet to, I'll resend a version with the corrected cell formula.

mburch
02-10-2007, 05:41 PM
I have dual HID landing lights in my wings already, but you guys are getting me thinking about putting some white Luxeons in the wingtips to serve as pulsing recognition lights (since you can't wig-wag HID lamps). I think spam can recognition lights are usually in the 25W range... how many lumens worth of white Lambertian Luxeon stars do you suppose I'd have to use to get an equivalent amount of light?

thanks,
mcb (sucker for gadgets and shiny things, of which LEDs are both...)

DanH
02-10-2007, 10:14 PM
Mike,
<< (green) looks like it's closer to 18 candles....the red still looks to peak at 10 candles.>>

Good work, very useful! What does the formula say for white?

Pirkka
02-11-2007, 03:00 AM
I think spam can recognition lights are usually in the 25W range... how many lumens worth of white Lambertian Luxeon stars do you suppose I'd have to use to get an equivalent amount of light?If we assume that the LED's junction temperature is around NTP and 25 W bulb gives out about 17 lm/W which yields to 425 lumens. Typical luminosity for Luxeon Star Emitter is 45 but as said before if you are driving them as stobo and pulses are short (10 - 50 ms should be well enough) the total energy absorbed in LED ain't big (50/1000 = 5% of rated). For continous driving of those LEDs you would need 10 of them but I would try something like 3 or 6... Should be plenty when driven with currents ~3 times higher than rated.

As The Other Doug Reeves asks why do you wish to use ice age LEDs? I really don't know. K2-serie would give out 2.5 times more luminosity than Luxeon I -serie LEDs. 3 K2s would be plenty if driven with peak pulses... At least my plans for now would be use K2s for strobos and actually for everything else too.

Generally I would put more LEDs and drive them with smaller current. Also in positioning lights I don't like when greens LEDs seem to be superior compared to the red ones... in terms of luminous flux.


References:
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/vision/lumpow.html
Luxeon Star Technical Datasheet (http://www.lumileds.com/pdfs/DS23.pdf)
LUXEON K2 Emitter (http://www.lumileds.com/pdfs/DS51.pdf)

mburch
02-11-2007, 08:17 AM
As The Other Doug Reeves asks why do you wish to use ice age LEDs? I really don't know. K2-serie would give out 2.5 times more luminosity than Luxeon I -serie LEDs. 3 K2s would be plenty if driven with peak pulses... At least my plans for now would be use K2s for strobos and actually for everything else too.Sorry, I should have mentioned that I was thinking about using K2 stars for recognition lights. :)

I'm not really interested in LED nav lights at this time, since I'm not convinced the noncertified ones that are available today really meet the FARs for viewing angle, minimum light output, and maximum light output, though I don't begrudge those builders who're using them with good results. I also already have a set of Whelen nav and strobe lights so I'm covered there. My landing lights are HID and thus I can't wig-wag them, so what I'm thinking of using the LEDs for is a set of relatively narrowly focused, pulsing lights (50% duty cycle at low rate, not peak pulse operation as you mentioned) to increase visibilty for day and evening operations.

For that application, it looks like a few white K2's with 5x20 degree oval lenses (http://www.luxeonstar.com/l2-optics.pdf) with the beam aligned in the horizontal plane could possibly work. 130 lumens per LED with a lens to redirect some of the "wasted" upward/downward photons out horizontally sounds pretty good. I may end up buying a few to play with once I get around to working on the wingtips.

Of course, I may just end up putting some 25W halogens out there to serve the same purpose, as suggested in this post (http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showpost.php?p=103640&postcount=20)...

mcb

DanH
02-11-2007, 08:31 AM
mcb,

<<...I was thinking about using K2 stars... >>

I was just over at the Phillips Lumiled site and don't recall a listing for K2 stars, just emitters. Do they make them?

<<My landing lights are HID and thus I can't wig-wag them,..>>

Hmm, I was also leafing through the lighting section in the Spruce catalog this AM and came across the "Aviflash HID and Halogen Lamp Flasher". Went back and looked it up for you, PN 11-04412, $59.85

mburch
02-11-2007, 08:45 AM
I was just over at the Phillips Lumiled site and don't recall a listing for K2 stars, just emitters. Do they make them?I think they are a third-party item, not made by Phillips, but you can get a K2 star in the same footprint here: http://www.luxeonstar.com/ The backplate is also electrically isolated, which is a nice bonus.

I was also leafing through the lighting section in the Spruce catalog this AM and came across the "Aviflash HID and Halogen Lamp Flasher".Yeah, I actually bought one of those as an impulse purchase a while back. However, I think I'm too chicken to actually hook it to my landing lights. I talked to Bill VonDane about it and he says he's had no problems on his airplane, but I want to be extra conservative about shortening the life of my expensive light bulbs!

mcb

Pirkka
02-11-2007, 11:03 AM
I may end up buying a few to play with once I get around to working on the wingtips.Go for it and let us know how you successed.

You said that you wanted visibility - to whom? If you want that others will see you I strongly suggest using very short pulses and overdriving LEDs. While you are doing your testing, just try it. Very short pulses doesn't heat up LEDs much but are more visible.

You actually don't need LEDs to do testing: get two similar lamps, one around 40W and one 100W. Put them side by side and try different timings -- do you ever get the feeling that 40W lamp would beat 100W even how long it would be on? And even 100W would be on just a fraction of a second. Comparison may not be fair because I'm not sure how fast bulbs turn on. LEDs turn on very quickly so therefore their pulses can be very short.

I don't see how Stars would be so superior... I would consider just emitters -- gives more flexibility how to arrange them and then they can be casted in epoxy if wanted.

the_other_dougreeves
02-11-2007, 12:11 PM
I don't see how Stars would be so superior... I would consider just emitters -- gives more flexibility how to arrange them and then they can be casted in epoxy if wanted.
Stars are, IMHO, easier to mount than emitters. Emitters look better when mounted properly. Stars are easily mounted to existing aluminum surfaces using the thermal adhesive.

MTBehnke
02-11-2007, 08:57 PM
Good work, very useful! What does the formula say for white?

The datasheets give the same graphs for the green and the white light distribution, and the white gives out about 85% of the lumens as the green. Since the green seems to range from 13.6 to 18 candles, the white should range from 11.5 to 15.2 candles.

Note, the datasheets give a range of light distribution pattern values for the green (and white). With the same light output, but in a more narrow band, the intensity could be as high as 18 lumens. Using the somewhat broader band, the peak intensity could be closer to 13.6 candles.

DanH
02-12-2007, 09:34 AM
<<the white should range from 11.5 to 15.2 candles>>

Thanks Mike.

I've been reading datasheets, etc. Dumb student has more questions for anyone willing.

Am I correct in thinking that all Luxeon emitters (I, III, V, etc) have the same forward voltage drops, ie 2.95 for red and 3.42 for green and white? This is a standard, a function of their physics?

On another front, just how weather resistant are these things? I'm not talking about salt spray, just ordinary moisture and UV effects. Could you thermal epoxy a Star to an external aluminum surface and expect it to live, or does it really need lens coverage?

Paul Eastham
02-12-2007, 09:41 AM
Am I correct in thinking that all Luxeon emitters (I, III, V, etc) have the same forward voltage drops, ie 2.95 for red and 3.42 for green and white? This is a standard, a function of their physics?

I believe they differ at least slightly, but they are in that ballpark. It is on the data sheet for each model, search for "voltage drop" or "forward voltage".

As for durability, they seem tough after some rough handling by yours truly (dropping them on the floor, etc), and the stars do seem to have some built-in anti-static diodes, but I haven't seen any specific specs on what you can expect except for temperature ranges.

DanH
02-12-2007, 09:07 PM
<<It is on the data sheet for each model, search for "voltage drop" or "forward voltage".>>

Got it, thanks Paul. Now I see it varies with drive current too.

Ok, I boldly propose to use three Luxeon III's per tip driven at 1000mA with a single 2008B PowerPuck. 1000mA is the max current for green (80 luminous flux). Reds can be driven at 1400mA for 140 luminous flux; the charts says about 105 underdriven at 1000mA. That should put them in the same ballpark in perceived brightness.

Three Lux III's per side seems to conserve real estate, but I've not waded through the heat sink equations yet (ugg!). Three of these may need the same heat sink as the six 1W that Sparky used, so perhaps I wouldn't really save any space. I would save a few bucks on the power supplies as I would only need two.

What say ye wise men? Always happy to have the education.

the_other_dougreeves
02-12-2007, 10:33 PM
Ok, I boldly propose to use three Luxeon III's per tip driven at 1000mA with a single 2008B PowerPuck. 1000mA is the max current for green (80 luminous flux). Reds can be driven at 1400mA for 140 luminous flux; the charts says about 105 underdriven at 1000mA. That should put them in the same ballpark in perceived brightness.

That should work - 3 x LuxIII should be PLENTY. That will allow you to get sufficient coverage. I'd drive them at 1000 or even 700mA - given that you are using 3 emitters, 700mA (60 lumens) should be fine. That will result in lower heatsink requirements. The PowerPucks are good, reliable drivers, BTW.

DanH
02-14-2007, 09:30 AM
Thinking about the tail light. Mike, does your spreadsheet indicate that a single white Luxeon III might satisfy the tail requirement? I'm guessing a LuxIII is bright enough at peak, but maybe not bright enough at the 140 degree edge.

Second item. I've not worked with the thermal epoxy (Arctic Alumina?) used to mount stars on a heat sink. Here's the question (hello Sparky!); do you think you could cast this epoxy?

petehowell
02-14-2007, 09:58 AM
I used 4 Lux III in cyan and red on mine and drove them at 700ma. They are plenty bright and do not get hot at all. The setup with taxi lights is pretty clean looking, too. IMHO......

DanH
02-14-2007, 10:07 AM
Did some info searching. Still don't have any idea about the viscosity and exotherm of Arctic Silver, but apparently there are castable heat sink epoxies:

http://www.insulcast.com/epoxy/index.html

Where am I going with this? If a single Lux III (or brighter) will satisfy the tail light requirements, it should be easy to cast one into a nice little fixture that would then epoxy to the trailing edge of the rudder....which is darn sure enough heat sink.

the_other_dougreeves
02-14-2007, 10:11 AM
Thinking about the tail light. Mike, does your spreadsheet indicate that a single white Luxeon III might satisfy the tail requirement? I'm guessing a LuxIII is bright enough at peak, but maybe not bright enough at the 140 degree edge.
Per the datasheet (http://www.ledsupply.com/docs/Luxeon-StarIII.pdf), the Lambertian Lux III has 25% to 45% intensity at 70 deg from the center axis. Some sort of diffuser lens or multiple stars would be helpful, although I think a single Lux III would work. You might be better off with 2x Lux I or III star, each at about 15 deg from the normal axis. Using two stars isn't a problem since you would still be using a single driver.

Sparky
02-14-2007, 07:38 PM
Second item. I've not worked with the thermal epoxy (Arctic Alumina?) used to mount stars on a heat sink. Here's the question (hello Sparky!); do you think you could cast this epoxy?

Dan, I, quite frankly, don't know if Artctic Alumina is "castable" or not :confused: . All documentation directs you to use as thin an application as possible to increase the thermal conductivity properties....interesting concept, however.

Also, since I've seen Mike Behnke's model and taking into consideration other comments on this thread by "The Other Doug Reeves" and others, I am rethinking my planned installation. My installation of the GREEN Luxeon I's for the starboard side meet the FAR requirements with only three LEDs mounted only on the forward-facing surface of the wingtip cutout. Adding the three planned additional LEDs on the inboard surface may actually cause non-compliance due to the maximum allowable levels beyond 110 degrees :mad: . Conversely, the three RED Luxeons I's mounted on the forward facing surface alone do not meet the minumum levels, but, adding three more on the inboard surface, again, may meet minimums but exceed maximums :mad: . So I am reconsidering my design :rolleyes: . I may just go with only the three Luxeon I's currently installed on the forward-facing starboard side and not add the three I had planned on the inboard surface. For the port side I am now thinking of going with just three red Luxeon III LEDs driven at 700 mA mounted on the forward-facing surface. This should provide a good overall distribution meeting all FAR requirements without compromizing asthetics. I haven't yet calculated if additional heatsinking would be required.

I have not even considered using high brightness LEDs to replace the white nav/strobe lights on the tail because I already have a Whelen tail/strobe combo light and doubt that I could come up with anything elegant to replace it in the same footprint.

This has turned out to be a very intriguing thread. Thanks go out to Mike Behnke for providing a very useful tool :) !

IowaRV9Dreamer
02-14-2007, 08:07 PM
I have experience with thermal epoxy from work. It is "thermal" in the sense that it carries heat with less loss (lower thermal resistance) than regular epoxy. It is still "lossy" meaning it has non-zero thermal resistance. It is often much more "lossy" than metal. Usually the manufacturer specifies a maximum bond thickness (often 0.010 inch). Beyond that the thermal resistances greatly increase.

Remember that you moving the heat from where it is generated (the LED junction) to elsewhere. It needs to either be conducted away (heating a structure), or convected away (heating air which rises away, like with a finned heatsink). Usually a combination of both. The use of thermal epoxy under the LED is just the first step in getting heat out of the packaged LED. It still has to go somewhere.

If you have still air, you can figure the size of a flat plate (conduction heatsink). There are also tables for finned (conduction/convection) heatsinks in still air and in moving air (so many CFM of airflow).

What I plan to do is to test my thermal design by measuring the heatsink temperature (steady state with LEDs on) - then you can easily calculate the junction temperature and see how close you are. Worst case has got to be sitting on the ground (turn off the NAV lights!) on a hot summer day.

By the way, the same thing is true of the white thermal compounds: Less is more - use it to fill the microscopic voids in the metal parts you are joining. Put it on, then scrape 99% off with a razor blade. If you put a big dollop on, your thermal resistances actually go up.

I'd buy a Luxeon wingtip kit if it came with a documented approach to both the thermal and optical (FARs) designs.

Good luck to all, this is an awesome thread,

Sparky
02-14-2007, 08:46 PM
IowaRV9Dreamer,

Ditto. I couldn't have said it any better...

DanH
02-14-2007, 09:47 PM
Thanks for pointing me in the right direction Dave. The Arctic Silver website states "Superior thermal conductivity. Greater than 7.5 W/mK". After reading your reply I searched up some W/mK comparison data for common heat sink metals:

Silver: 417 W/m K
Copper: 394 W/m K
Gold: 291 W/m K
Aluminum: 217 W/m K

Sheesh! Compared to metals the stuff barely conducts any heat at all.

Well, so much for that idea. A taillight fixture will need to be metal, not cast epoxy, if heat transfer is important. Use thermal epoxy in thin films only, the thinner the better. More lessons learned <g>

hydroguy2
03-04-2007, 01:28 PM
Hi Guys,

The special is on at the moment: $160 for a 60Watt, 4 head upgradable to 6, multipattern, 5 Year Guarentee. Normal price is $240. It looks like the unit is manufactured by Nova, cause it has the same form factor, product ID numbering etc. The talk is Nova was started by ex Whelen employees, so it should be good. Nova Reference Site: www.strobe.com.

Do you own homework and decide if it will work for you...


OK I'm trying to do my homework, but I ain't to bright :D

will this system work as a power source for the the whelen taillight/strobe combo?

the_other_dougreeves
03-04-2007, 03:00 PM
Thanks for pointing me in the right direction Dave. The Arctic Silver website states "Superior thermal conductivity. Greater than 7.5 W/mK". After reading your reply I searched up some W/mK comparison data for common heat sink metals:

Silver: 417 W/m K
Copper: 394 W/m K
Gold: 291 W/m K
Aluminum: 217 W/m K

Sheesh! Compared to metals the stuff barely conducts any heat at all.
Remember that the point of thermal paste/epoxy is to fill in voids in the metal-metal contact and provide adhesion. The layer is very, very thin - maybe 0.1mm. Arctic silver is good stuff when used properly. It's commonly used between CPUs and copper heatsinks.

Pirkka
03-08-2007, 05:45 AM
Just found some new sources for high luminosity LEDs:

www.zled.com (http://www.zled.com/) (Seoul Semiconductor) - Look for P4
www.avagotech.com/led (http://www.avagotech.com/led) - Look for ASMT-MW20
www.osram-os.com (http://www.osram-os.com) - Look for Dragons and Ostar

Here is also some shops where to get LEDs in Europe:

www.ultraleds.co.uk (http://www.ultraleds.co.uk/)
www.uk.conrad.com (http://www.uk.conrad.com/)
http://uk.farnell.com (http://uk.farnell.com/)
www.dotlight.de (http://www.dotlight.de/)
www.ebv.com (http://www.ebv.com/)
www.led1.de/shop (http://www.led1.de/shop)
www.lumitronix.com (http://www.lumitronix.com/)

These were found from Elektor electronics -magazine February issue 2007.

Many manufacturers already tell how much lumens their product will produce per watt. However that is not everything. Just noticed that there is some small Luxeon LEDs which might have superior lumens per volume or foot print ratings compared to others... So why use one big LED if you can replace it with bunch of smaller with better performance in same volume or foot print. Ok, I'll admit that the price may go to skies.

ronoc74
03-29-2007, 10:33 AM
Has anyone had a problem with Strobes N' More? I ordered last month, card was charged but received no shipping notice, no reply to my e-mail of Monday and I tried the other e-mail address on their site too.

Sid Lambert
03-29-2007, 10:58 AM
My order arrived in a few days with only 2 or so auto-generated emails.

I think 1 from them and 1 from UPS saying it shipped.

RV_7A
03-29-2007, 01:09 PM
Has anyone had a problem with Strobes N' More? I ordered last month, card was charged but received no shipping notice, no reply to my e-mail of Monday and I tried the other e-mail address on their site too.

Why dont you try their phone? Emails to businesses never get quick responses.

401-348-0141

-Jeff

JohnR
03-29-2007, 02:44 PM
I got mine in just a couple of days. I'd give them a call.

DanH
03-29-2007, 05:32 PM
I too got mine very quickly.

RudiGreyling
03-31-2007, 02:01 PM
You guys in the USA are so lucky...I was first to order :D told you about it, and mine is still on the big blue pond in a ship on the way to me in South Africa... mine should arrive end of april. Let me know what you guys think of them when you connect them up :p

Regards
Rudi

Hadley
04-10-2007, 11:31 PM
i am interested in the strobes and more system (pro series 606) that you guys are recommending.

my question is who is using the system and are they having problems with the strobe sound on the radio?

currently, i am comparing the aeroflash system that puts the power units in the end of the wings and would prefer to go with the pro series because it is much cheaper. the noise is a deal killer.

thanks for your help....

briand
04-13-2007, 07:29 AM
What about this system. It looks like the strobe tubes just snap in place.

http://strobeguy.safeshopper.com/70/2043.htm?248

alpinelakespilot2000
04-13-2007, 11:31 AM
What about this system. It looks like the strobe tubes just snap in place.

http://strobeguy.safeshopper.com/70/2043.htm?248Looks pretty good. I think we'd still need to buy a self contained position/strobe head for the rudder but perhaps we could use the powerpack shown for that along with the two strobe heads for the wing tips. (?) It looks like they have a lot of differents systems that would work, though.

I'm just now finally starting to get serious about deciding on position/strobe light systems so any updates on what's out there right now and what works, would be much appreciated!

One specific question: how many watts should we be looking for in a strobe system?

briand
05-06-2007, 07:55 AM
I got to thinking the wire harnesses that come with these are most likely NOT using Tefzel. Are you guys making your own or just using the stock stuff?

Leland
05-06-2007, 10:20 AM
I installed the Nova X-PAC 904 strobe system for a very good price. Unfortunately the flash apparently has too much energy for my Whelan strobes and I burned out three strobes in 150 hours. I now operate the unit on "Low" flash and have had no further problems. A friend suggested that the unit is really designed for emergency vehicles that have more robust flash tubes.
Leland

the_other_dougreeves
05-08-2007, 12:53 PM
Mostly on topic with the thread, but the new Cirrus G3s are using LED-based recognition lights in the leading edges. I haven't found any real detailed info other than photos and a reference to "9W" leds.

Looking at the photos (below), I'm guessing that these are 2x Luxeon III LEDs with a small reflector and no optics. The whole setup would draw about 1A per side - very little. It should put out about 200 lumens total, which, depending on the reflectors, should be very visible. From what I can tell, they are putting them in both wingtips, which begs the questions of whether they will make a wig-wag available.

The low current draw is a big plus in my mind. It means less load on the alternator (which may not be making full power during decent / approach), smaller wiring and a very low chance of a burnt out light. We have found out the hard way that using the 100W landing light in the CT is problematic - the Rotax alternator doesn't make much power at low RPM, and it's easy to drain your battery down.

I'm thinking of using the new style W-715-1 wingtips and instead of installing Van's MR16-based landing lights, put 2x or 3x Lux III under each cover and a duckworks light in the leading edge. This should give PLENTY of light for taxi and recognition (particularly with a wig-wag) with low current draw. Total parts for 4x LuxIII and 2x drivers is less than $100.

From the Cirrus G3 Website:
Recognition Lights The Generation Threes new leading-edge wing tip recognition lights enhance ground visibility at night during the taxi, take off and landing phases of flight to better illuminate what's in front of you. While you're in flight, the recognition lights make you more visible to other pilots, even during daylight hours.

http://www.aero-news.net/images/content/genav/2007/CirrusG3-0407i.jpg
http://www.cirrusdesign.com/images/features/png/small/reclight.jpg

mburch
05-08-2007, 01:13 PM
I'm thinking of using the new style W-715-1 wingtips and instead of installing Van's MR16-based landing lights, put 2x or 3x Lux III under each cover and a duckworks light in the leading edge. This should give PLENTY of light for taxi and recognition (particularly with a wig-wag) with low current draw. Total parts for 4x LuxIII and 2x drivers is less than $100.I'm thinking of pretty much the exact same thing, so let me know how yours turns out if you beat me to it. :) An aluminum plate for a heatsink seems like it would be a good idea there.

mcb

the_other_dougreeves
05-08-2007, 02:41 PM
I'm thinking of pretty much the exact same thing, so let me know how yours turns out if you beat me to it. :) An aluminum plate for a heatsink seems like it would be a good idea there.

mcb
I'm easily 6-9 months away from that stage ;)

Doesn't the "back" of the wingtip light inset have an aluminum plate that you could mount the stars to? Either that, or fab up a plate to fit the space? That should be plenty of heat sink, provided it's tied into the wing.

Here is a photo (from Van's) that shows the RV-10 arrangement; I understand that the W-715-1 arrangement is similar. Instead of installing the Van's projector bulb kit, I'd put the Luxeons there.

http://www.vansaircraft.com/images/catalog/cat-med_ll_10.jpg

Pirkka
07-20-2007, 02:17 AM
Let's not leave this thread yet. Just found another interesting LED manufacturer Edison Opto at http://www.edison-opto.com.tw/

At least some of these seems to be easily available in Europe and EdiPower serie in particular seems to be interesting although radiation pattern and driving voltages may put some challenge.

This is all I've done for LED lights since I last wrote to this thread. Although it seems to be good tactic as future of bright LEDs seem to be bright... Anyone else any progress?

the_other_dougreeves
07-29-2007, 10:25 AM
AeroLEDs (http://www.aeroleds.com) has introduced a taxi/recognition/landing light module. This appears to be made from 8 x Lux III emitters, some with wide and some with narrow angle lenses (some appear to have the 5 x 20 deg pattern). This is a hyped up version of the idea we were throwing around on this thread some time ago. Not cheap at $500/ea or $850/pair.

http://www.aeroleds.com/images/587_AeroSun.jpg

http://www.aeroleds.com/images/587_AeroSun3.jpg

8CW
07-29-2007, 06:45 PM
[QUOTE=the_other_dougreeves]AeroLEDs (http://www.aeroleds.com) has introduced a taxi/recognition/landing light module. This appears to be made from 8 x Lux III emitters, some with wide and some with narrow angle lenses (some appear to have the 5 x 20 deg pattern). This is a hyped up version of the idea we were throwing around on this thread some time ago. Not cheap at $500/ea or $850/pair.


I saw these at OSH also. They look pretty good and I'm leaning in that direction. I do have a concern about the single mount/pivot point on each side though. I'm afraid they may want to droop due to vibration or taxiing on rough fields. I think they would be better if they were to put two attach points on each side; I.E., a pivot point low and then a slotted point above for setting the angle of the beam... I also asked them about LED Nav's. They said they were working on them but that it would be about 6 months before they come to market.

Pirkka
07-30-2007, 07:21 AM
I just run into another "interesting" project. Light sabre:

http://www.thought-criminal.org/tags/intelligent-optical-systems

How about having light sabres at wing tips? :D I think we should study seriously anything that makes a lot of light. How expensive and easy this might be implement we shall see that later.

Dean_aeroleds
08-01-2007, 09:59 PM
I just wanted to respond to the concern about the mounting of the AeroLEDs AeroSUN product. The mounting screws are 1/4-20 anodized screws with anodized steel lockwashers. When the screws fully compress the lock washer, the unit is locked down very tightly. We do not believe that vibration or shock will be capable of rotating the unit with this mounting scheme. We flew our Kitfox 7A from EUL to OSH and back with our lights running full time in wig-wag mode, and they did not budge from the set position. We put about 14 hours on the plane each way, for a total of 28 hours of flight time.

One other note, we are interested in offering a discount to Van's Airforce members, and will be contacting the webmaster on this site to look into a link to a special discount page exclusively for members of Van's Airforce.

Dean Wilkinson
AeroLEDs LLC

Pirkka
08-06-2007, 12:42 AM
Another brand for bright LEDs: http://www.cree.com/products/xlamp.asp

However I was only able to find white LEDs.

Geo
08-06-2007, 10:23 AM
Hello.
I am the guy who started GS-Air in 2003. I eventually sold the company and moved on to a ...different life...!
I am now building an RV-7A.
I just want to say a couple of things about the NOVA strobe drivers.
1: They are excellent.
The number indicate the power and the number of strobe heads, e.g. x-pak 604 means 60 watts, 4 heads.
This is what I learned in 4 years of building, selling, supporting strobe systems etc:
the un-modified 604 is too fast for aviation purposes. GS-Air obtained a variation directly from NOVA, called the 604HR. HR stands for Half-Rate.
The 604 HR in its single or double flash mode is (IMHO) perfect. Very powerful, reliable, can use 2, 3 or 4 heads (which are about 20-25$ each...) and has a low-power mode that brings the power down to 40 watts and is great for night flying (at night you need much LESS strobe brightness to be still very visible...)
The 90XX series is just too powerful. It will burn and destroy any strobe bulb out there.
The 402 series is really nice (that-s what GS Air initially was selling), but to mainly liability concerns we decided in 2005 to switch to a more powerful driver (still, the 402 flash saturated a 2,000 footcandles light meter, where the FARS require 400 footcandles for anticollision lights).
Well, this is it. I don't even want to start entering the LED discussion arena, but I can just say the candles simply can NOT be used to measure LED brightness. The FAA recently sent out a document which refers to a spreadsheet from the SAE (Soc Automotive Engineers) and specifies that if LEDs are used for Navigation lights "They must exhibit an equivalent level of safety when compared to incandescent lights"....you sleuths out there do some digging....
Just one last point. I have some leftover 604-HR, plus some strobe cable and a box of strobe bulbs. I can let the drivers go for $ 130 each, and the bulbs for $25 each. This is basically what I bought those for about 6 months ago. I will include the strobe cable (40 feet) for free. This is an end of basement-inventory sale only. Everything is new in their original boxes, but I think I only have 6 or 7 drivers left. If anyone is interested give me a call in the evenings at 507-202-7012.
Regards to all.
Giovanni

Geo
08-06-2007, 10:28 AM
Me again.
Just re-read the first post in this series, and if you get that driver, 4 strobe heads, all cables for $ 160, well that's an unbeatable deal!!! The only issue is that you will have to see that the rate is not too fast.
Giovanni

westwinds
08-27-2007, 04:59 PM
Has anyone looked at the Whelen TIR 3 ultra led lights available at strobesnmore. Heres the link to the page http://strobeguy.safeshopper.com/80/2288.htm?927 These lights are available in red ,green and clear. It indicates they can be used in steady burn configuration. I cannot find any beam spread info. I might just try these for position and recognition lights. There should be room to put the red/green light vertically in the corner of the leading edge cutout of the wingtip and place the white light horizontally next to it. It seems like three LEDS might give enough light for the nav lights when i think about how little light the certified stuff really puts out. Tony

chaskuss
03-01-2011, 06:25 PM
I installed the Nova X-PAC 904 strobe system for a very good price. Unfortunately the flash apparently has too much energy for my Whelan strobes and I burned out three strobes in 150 hours. I now operate the unit on "Low" flash and have had no further problems. A friend suggested that the unit is really designed for emergency vehicles that have more robust flash tubes.
Leland

Leland,
Were you using the 904 with a 2 strobe system or a 3 strobe system? My understanding is that to meet the current lighting requirements, you need just under 30 watts per strobe [head]. Nova's nomenclature is as follows:
First two digits equals watts [ie 904 means 90 watts, 604 means 60 watts]
Third digit specifies the total number of strobe heads [bulbs], the power supply can drive. Watts is actually rated [as of several years ago] at driving half the "maximum" rated strobe heads.
Therefore, a two strobe system should be using a 60x power supply.
Charlie