Why does Lockheed Martin change my departure time (and equipment suffix, and routing)

I have noticed recently that when filing IFR flight plans through Garmin Pilot / Lockheed Martin FS, my departure time seems to always be automatically incremented by 10 minutes. If I file an 0600 departure, I get 0610. 1500=1510.

Additionally, when filing, I have received a routing that was completely different that what I filed, and well out of the way. I didn't think much of that since I assumed that ATC was just trying to keep me out of the way of morning traffic arriving and departing Pittsburgh, but then after the Clearance Delivery guy made me copy a whole new route, he gave me a departure heading pointed at my last filed fix and then immediately cleared me direct to it after I was airborne.

Seems rather inefficient.

Also, the last few times I have filed, the flight plan has left off my equipment suffix.

NOTE THAT After filing with Garmin Pilot, I receive and email with a flight plan form with all the correct information, but it seems to get left off and changed soewhere down the road.

Has anyone else seen this more frequently lately?

Often small airports near big ones have "preferred routes" designed to keep you away from the big airport traffic. e.g., here at LVK we are east of SFO. Monterey is south-southwest. But no matter what I file the computer will give me the preferred route to MRY - flying east! Often ATC will give me a more direct route once airborn, traffic permitting.
The other questions, I have no answer for.

Try calling 1 800 992-7433 (Lockheed Flight Service) and ask for the floor supervisor. Explain your last filed IFR, what process you are using, and hear what they have to say. There are many reasons routing can be changed but until you go to the source there may be more confusion than straight answers.

Cheers,

KleensRV6 said:

Try calling 1 800 992-7433 (Lockheed Flight Service) and ask for the floor supervisor. Explain your last filed IFR, what process you are using, and hear what they have to say. There are many reasons routing can be changed but until you go to the source there may be more confusion than straight answers.

Cheers,

Click to expand...

I'll give it a try. Never thought to ask FSS for a supervisor.

automation

FSS will not be able to help you on your quest as the reason you receive a different route other than filed is due to our automation(FAA). We try to keep departures and arrivals procedurally separated. When you file your flight plan, ERAM, our computer, makes a flight plan and probes it, one it crosses a line setup to catch departures or arrivals it automatically converts it to the correct route( ADR, AAR, or ADAR) Automatic Departure Route, Automatic Arrival Route, or Automatic Departure and Arrival Route. As I said before this is triggered by a line that we place to catch strays, we also trigger the route by departure point and or departure and arrival point. This route is in addition to a SID as well usually. When flight planning please check preferred departures or routes. Some flight planning software will show you flight plans who have filed same route so may give you an indication of what you should be filing to help the system. I might add this whole process is designed to keep aircraft separated in busy environments. I hope this helps, and if you have any questions please ask... I'm a controller at Miami ARTCC so no hate mail plz.....

equipment suffix

Our old system gave us the ability to change equipment suffix easily but now the computer looks at each component of your equipment and aircraft capabilities to determine the correct suffix. This is due to more equipment in the National airspace system. If you need more information we can go deeper into the system but that is the short story. Controllers don't like this aspect of the system either, we have to change many things in your flight plan to get the desired outcome. Big pain when we are busy.

turbosaaber said:

When flight planning please check preferred departures or routes. Some flight planning software will show you flight plans who have filed same route so may give you an indication of what you should be filing to help the system. I might add this whole process is designed to keep aircraft separated in busy environments.

Click to expand...

Carl - no hate here, I'm happy to have the chance to clarify things like this. The question for me is that if I file for a route from Point A to Point B, I'd obviously like to fly it direct. If however I file a great circle routing with 16 points in between (like many of the previous flight plans on same route), I'm guaranteed to have to fly it. In my mind, its a roll of the dice and sometimes I'll get lucky with the direct route.

Help me with that logic. Maybe its something simple I'm missing. I'm sure others are thinking similar.

departure times

OK, when you file your IFR with a P time of xxxx, your flight plan is now in the system but will not assign a discrete beacon code to your flight plan until 30 min prior to your proposed departure time. If you call Clearance Delivery prior to 30 min prior the controller will amend your time so we can give you a code and issue your clearance. Not too detrimental as we have adapted a 2.5 hour flight plan drop interval meaning that after 2.5 hours after your proposed departure time your flight plan will drop out of the system and you will have to refile. Each ARTCC may set this drop interval to a different time but 2.5 is pretty standard. Why do we not assign a code when your fight plan is created? Simple there are only 2096 codes, less actually so we don't want to use them all. Why 2.5 as a drop interval, we use this to save codes as well. Hope this helps in your understanding of our system....

direct

We would like to give you direct but it is based on traffic congestion and flow. We take you out on certain routes because it is safe, if you go NORDO at least you are not flying head on with a 777 which might hurt. We have many reasons why we do what we do but it is normally about keeping aircraft separated. Each area may have different traffic flows and it will change with runway configurations.

ask

Ask for direct, worst we can say is No, if you don't get your request perhaps the controller will put you on a heading or give you a different fix further on your route which he can permit based on traffic.

What is NORDO?

Nordo

No radio. Communication failure for whatever reason

Does it mean No Radio?

Ah, thank you. Makes sense now.

turbosaaber said:

When flight planning please check preferred departures or routes. Some flight planning software will show you flight plans who have filed same route so may give you an indication of what you should be filing to help the system. I might add this whole process is designed to keep aircraft separated in busy environments. I hope this helps, and if you have any questions please ask... I'm a controller at Miami ARTCC so no hate mail plz.....

Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply!

I am aware of preferred routes etc. and I do check them when flight planning. In my case, all of the previously flown routes have been direct or the same route that I filed. There are no published SIDs from my departure airport although there are a couple for PIT which is nearby. For whatever reason, my original flight plan, which was relatively direct, got changed to a route that put me all the way down the middle and the on the opposite side of the Pittsburgh Class B from where I was going. Then they essentially gave me direct once I was airborne. Very confusing, as the automated route put me way closer to the departures from PIT that morning than my original plan would have.

When you say that the equipment suffix can be changed based on what the computer knows about my equipment, how can it know what equipment I have other than by looking at my filed equipment suffix?

icao format

Well its mainly ICAO format, but this is the direction the FAA is moving for Flight plans and planning since there are so many different configurations available now. Some electronic flight plan input systems require you to list what equipment you have. ADSB, RNP 5, RNP 10, RVSM, GPS, RNav, VOR, ILS, Tacan, TCAS 1 and 2, HF, COMSAT, RNV values for approach, departure, and enroute. ILS, MLS, these are just off the top of my head, there are soooo many qualifiers, when we have to change a suffix type we have to click on the computer then the computer, ERAM, decides whether you are qualified for what you file. I know there are 43 different qualifiers, some that the FAA is not using yet and is reserved for future equipment. If you look at ICAO format you will get a better idea what I"m talking about. For instance if you file a /I and are trying to get into RVSM airspace the computer will not allow it and it places a coral box around your mode c altitude indicating you are not qualified. The computer knows what you are flying based on what you file and it compares it to your equipment. It sees your equipment based on your transponder and ADSB. I'm not an expert on this but this is how I understand the system. We see it all the time when Havana sends us flight plans that cross into US airspace and the routes will reject because the airline or company the airlines use to send foreign flight plans does not include all the equipment qualifiers, so we end up playing 20 questions with the pilots which is not good when we are busy. Does that make sense?

just a quick story to help perhaps, airliner going into HAV, I issue opposite direction traffic 1000 below and he says he never saw the traffic or more importantly he never saw the traffic on TCAS. SO I told him to check his tcas and he says it is now inop. He is in RVSM airspace, INOP tcas disqualifies him from using RVSM airspace or makes it harder and the separation requirement now changes from 1000 vertical to 2000. and each controller has to approve non rvsm flight prior to entry or must either be above it or below it. In this instance he was landing havana anyway so he was given fl280. After I clicked Non RVSM in this equipment in his flight plan the coral box appeared and his equipment suffix changed.

This is all pure gold. Thank you Carl. Love learning more about how the system works.

krw5927 said:

This is all pure gold. Thank you Carl. Love learning more about how the system works.

Click to expand...

Agreed.

I find it funny that they let me file a domestic IFR flight plan /I and then run it through some filters designed for an ICAO flight plan and that spits out a blank equipment suffix.

I guess in a few months it won't matter since we'll all have to file ICAO anyway.

Thanks again for the responses!