Van's Air Force
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Dynon vs Advanced Flight Systems
- Thread starter MS19087
- Start date
Mike S
Senior Curmudgeon
Thanks for asking
I also have been trying to make a choice between these two. I will interested in seeing what is reported from actual users.
I was first exposed to the AFS when I took the demo ride at Vans, and found it to be easy and simple to figure out in just a couple of minutes.
AFS also offers a bigger screen than most, not sure if Dynon has same size available.
But, AFS seems to be doing a bit more advertising than shipping--------I have a buddy down the street who is stalled in finishing his -10 beacuse he cant get his AFS unit.
Will be interesting to see what folks have to say-------I know that both companys follow this site, thier input will also be interesting.
Mike
I also have been trying to make a choice between these two. I will interested in seeing what is reported from actual users.
I was first exposed to the AFS when I took the demo ride at Vans, and found it to be easy and simple to figure out in just a couple of minutes.
AFS also offers a bigger screen than most, not sure if Dynon has same size available.
But, AFS seems to be doing a bit more advertising than shipping--------I have a buddy down the street who is stalled in finishing his -10 beacuse he cant get his AFS unit.
Will be interesting to see what folks have to say-------I know that both companys follow this site, thier input will also be interesting.
Mike
N402RH
Well Known Member
"AFS seems to be doing a bit more advertising than shipping"
Actually we have finally shipped more units than we have run ads.
I just got back from flying the new AOA display on an ILS approach and it is working great. We currently have around 10 customer units flying and that should dramatically increase in the next few weeks. We have done extensive testing, including real world IFR icing conditions and the system is working flawlessly. The artificial horizon is reliable even with a frozen Pitot and/or static system.
We agree that this has taken longer than we anticipated. We also understand that this has caused delays for our customers, and that is frustrating for everyone. For that we do apologize. However, the extra time has also resulted in more testing which means that everyone gets a more thoroughly tested product. We don?t believe in shipping products until we?re sure they?re right. We also don?t believe in using our customers? money to finance our business. We have used OUR money to develop, engineer, and manufacture all of our products.
Sincerely,
Rob Hickman
Advanced Flight Systems Inc.
Actually we have finally shipped more units than we have run ads.
I just got back from flying the new AOA display on an ILS approach and it is working great. We currently have around 10 customer units flying and that should dramatically increase in the next few weeks. We have done extensive testing, including real world IFR icing conditions and the system is working flawlessly. The artificial horizon is reliable even with a frozen Pitot and/or static system.
We agree that this has taken longer than we anticipated. We also understand that this has caused delays for our customers, and that is frustrating for everyone. For that we do apologize. However, the extra time has also resulted in more testing which means that everyone gets a more thoroughly tested product. We don?t believe in shipping products until we?re sure they?re right. We also don?t believe in using our customers? money to finance our business. We have used OUR money to develop, engineer, and manufacture all of our products.
Sincerely,
Rob Hickman
Advanced Flight Systems Inc.
Phyrcooler
Well Known Member
Nothing like directness. I love this website. Thanks D.R.N401RH said:
alpinelakespilot2000
Well Known Member
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$MS19087 said:
I believe the AFS is a much nicer unit to work with from what I've seen. The display is laid out better and the graphics more pleasing to the eye. My only hope of ever owning one is if Rob ships enough units to lower the price a bit. Other than that I think it's a great product backed by a honest man.
I wouldn't held my breath. As Rob said, they have developing, engineering and manufacturing expenses which the in the end we will pay them (if everything goes as they are planning). Otherwise business ain't healthy. They have put price tag for their product and assuming they would have similar expenses making their product, they will get zero balance selling less unit as they have higher price compared to Dynon for example. If they would be offering same as Dynon, less intrest would be towards them as they are priced higher, but if and when they are offering something extra, they can put higher price tag and users will have to determine what they will get with that higher price. For example display size, if you are not happy with the Dynon display size, you'll go for AFS and pay the price difference the products has. This actually applies for everything, as Garmin has insane price tag for X900, if you want to have Garmin, you'll pay for it or you are not having one.svanarts said:
However selecting any EFIS should be based on the user habits, desires and how much they can pay for it. For a start, to make fair comparison against Dynon and AFS you could make a list of a features what you want to have in your EFIS. Then rate how important they are and how much they really matters. Then determine how each feature you want matches for each product. Then calculate which EFIS is really the one for you. This "method" has also name, anyone recall that?
Luckily I'm not yet in the situation choosing EFIS...
Captain_John
Well Known Member
Hey Rob,
Can you give us an overview of all the components of your system (complete with pics) and a "How-To" on the installation process?
This is my first airplane and I just don't know what I don't know. I do know that I don't know ALOT about installing avionics!
Thanks!
CJ
Can you give us an overview of all the components of your system (complete with pics) and a "How-To" on the installation process?
This is my first airplane and I just don't know what I don't know. I do know that I don't know ALOT about installing avionics!
Thanks!
CJPirkka said:
Sounds like you are describing a weighted average scoring system. You list the features/attributes/performance levels you want and give each a weight based on how important it is to you. You then score the different products on each feature. In the end, you multiply the weight for the feature times the score and average those weighted scores. Theoretically, in the end, the one with the highest weighted average is the best product for you. However, the technique assumes you have listed all the features/attibutes/performance levels that are truly important to you. It also assumes that your weights and scores are consistently done. This can be difficult to do. The technique is fine if you take the final weighted average with a grain of salt. If there is little difference in the final scores, I wouldn't automatically jump to the higher one. It is easy for the precision of the numbers to exceed the accuracy of the scoring system.
Before scoring I recommend separating your list of features into "must haves" and "nice to haves". If a product doesn't have one of your "must haves" then delete it from further consideration. Just scoring a feature with a zero does not remove it from consideration in a simple weighted average decision model.
Don't forget to factor in price to all you decisions. You can almost buy a whole spare EFIS from Dynon for the price differential between AFS and Dynon. Add in AoA and the price differental becomes even larger. We'll have our heated AoA pitot out shortly for less than the price of just AoA on the AFS systems.
With this setup you can have two screens that are totally redundant EFIS systems as well as being able to run EMS on one and EFIS on the other most of the time. This give you a full EMS, instead of a partial one stuffed below the EFIS.
For real flying in IFR, you need a backup. Dual AFS EFIS systems will cost you at least $9000, without an EMS. You can literally stuff 4 Dynon EFIS systems in your panel for that price, or three big screens with an EMS.
Just like AFS, Dynon never takes money before shipment and never has. One advantage here is that we're an honest company- not just one man. When you buy from Dynon, you don't have to worry that your whole EFIS and EMS is supported by one person. If someone leaves Dynon, the company will continue to function.
Plus, our EFIS screen has turn rate, and just wait until you see our next firmware update
In the end, both the Dynon and AFS systems are very good, and it is a personal decision. It would be hard for anyone to lay out an argument that one is the obvious choice.
With this setup you can have two screens that are totally redundant EFIS systems as well as being able to run EMS on one and EFIS on the other most of the time. This give you a full EMS, instead of a partial one stuffed below the EFIS.
For real flying in IFR, you need a backup. Dual AFS EFIS systems will cost you at least $9000, without an EMS. You can literally stuff 4 Dynon EFIS systems in your panel for that price, or three big screens with an EMS.
Just like AFS, Dynon never takes money before shipment and never has. One advantage here is that we're an honest company- not just one man. When you buy from Dynon, you don't have to worry that your whole EFIS and EMS is supported by one person. If someone leaves Dynon, the company will continue to function.
Plus, our EFIS screen has turn rate, and just wait until you see our next firmware update
In the end, both the Dynon and AFS systems are very good, and it is a personal decision. It would be hard for anyone to lay out an argument that one is the obvious choice.
Ill take one of each!
Well, I think both units are fine, even Robb from AFS thinks its hard to beat the D10-A from Dynon. Each unit offers information that 10 years ago we would be happy to pay far more then we pay today. I am using AF-3400 as the main EFIS and the Dynon as a back up with there excellent HSI setup. Having segregated EFIS units with lots of redundancy is never a bad thing. Competition is such a good thing and having pioneers Dynon, ASF, GRT, and all the others make flying X-Planes that much better.
Adam Silversten
Finnish RV-8
RV-4 For sale
(908) 803-8301
Well, I think both units are fine, even Robb from AFS thinks its hard to beat the D10-A from Dynon. Each unit offers information that 10 years ago we would be happy to pay far more then we pay today. I am using AF-3400 as the main EFIS and the Dynon as a back up with there excellent HSI setup. Having segregated EFIS units with lots of redundancy is never a bad thing. Competition is such a good thing and having pioneers Dynon, ASF, GRT, and all the others make flying X-Planes that much better.
Adam Silversten
Finnish RV-8
RV-4 For sale
(908) 803-8301
kentb
Well Known Member
Now wait a minute
I don't know what the legal organization is of either company, but both companies have answered my question and offered to correct problems with their products, in my experience.
I have products from both companies. I bought the Dynon heated pitot tube when it first came out and was told when the recall happened to keep using it and that it would be replace when the correct solution is found. I will keep waiting in hopes for a solution soon.
I bought AFS engine monitor and AOA unit, this was before either company had a good solution for EFIS. I have had great support from Rob Hickman and the other AFS support personal (yes there are many people working at AFS).
Living in the NW has allowed me to take advantage of AFS great support and they have worked on my engine monitor installation and AOA wiring to make them work very well in my plane.
Kent
dynonsupport said:
I don't know what the legal organization is of either company, but both companies have answered my question and offered to correct problems with their products, in my experience.
I have products from both companies. I bought the Dynon heated pitot tube when it first came out and was told when the recall happened to keep using it and that it would be replace when the correct solution is found. I will keep waiting in hopes for a solution soon.
I bought AFS engine monitor and AOA unit, this was before either company had a good solution for EFIS. I have had great support from Rob Hickman and the other AFS support personal (yes there are many people working at AFS).
Living in the NW has allowed me to take advantage of AFS great support and they have worked on my engine monitor installation and AOA wiring to make them work very well in my plane.
Kent
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randylervold
moderator
I think it's great that both AFS and Dynon monitor these forums and communicate directly with the user community. There are other companies that don't and I think its a shame and a lost opportunity for them. Someone earlier posted that AFS has chosen to add features and capabilities and charge a bit more for it -- that appears to be exactly what they are doing. It's called "product positioning" and is a fundamental of marketing.
Also, let's get the facts straight... I live in the area and know that AFS has six full time employees, four of whom are degreed electrical engineers. Their support has always been superlative, as the archives will attest, and they have a strategic relationship with Crossbow, a major player in the certified AHRS field. I don't think that relationship would exist if they weren't convinced AFS was credible.
Both AFS and Dynon have done a great job providing outstanding products for the experimental aviation market and we are fortunate to have them both.
FWIW,
Also, let's get the facts straight... I live in the area and know that AFS has six full time employees, four of whom are degreed electrical engineers. Their support has always been superlative, as the archives will attest, and they have a strategic relationship with Crossbow, a major player in the certified AHRS field. I don't think that relationship would exist if they weren't convinced AFS was credible.
Both AFS and Dynon have done a great job providing outstanding products for the experimental aviation market and we are fortunate to have them both.
FWIW,
