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AKZO Shelf Life and Paint Schedule

S

siclick33

Member
I have been looking at primers and AKZO seems to be pretty popular, however the smallest sized tin I can find is 5 litres.

According to the data sheet the shelf life of the primer appears to be 24 months in an unopened tin. I'm guessing that it will be longer than that between painting the empennage and being ready to paint the fuselage (my kit will be slow build) and the tin would already have been opened for some time by then.

How much primer is needed for an RV-8 (priming everything internal)? If a 5 litre tin is only enough for the empennage and wings then my problem may be solved. However, if 5 litres is enough for the whole plane then how do you prime the fuselage before the paint life expires?

I'd rather not throw half a tin away considering the cost :eek:
 
5 liters is more than enough to do the entire airplane ,when you spray it it should be transparent if not you are probably putting it on too heavy . I prime the entire kit at once ,saves time and material also the primer can be used well after shelf life if stored air tight and cool ,if your concerned put it in the freezer
 
Well, not sure about transparent, mine goes on green :)

I am almost finished priming everything and almost finished with the 2 gallons. In fact, I might be short maybe 8oz of primer as I primed all sorts of other non-airplane things with it once I realized how tough the stuff was! There's at least one car door out there where the interior is Akzo green ;)

I would not worry about the expiration date, I believe it's a milspec requirement. Granted I say that knowing nothing about what happens to the chemicals as they age. Beware of raining dogs/cats if used past expiration.
 
If you are going to apply primer so thin as to make it "transparent" to "save weight"...then don't prime at all. The application spec for most paints and primers is at least 1.2 mils thick. Just remember....if you can SEE the aluminum through the primer, moisture can "SEE" the aluminum too;)
 
Next time you prime something make a mark with a sharpie if you cannot see it after you prime then you put on too much material, check with the manufacture and I ' m sure they will agree
 
That amount should get you through the wings at least. I wouldn't sweat the shelf life too much.
As for thickness, from an older posting:
>>>>>
Out of curiosity, I brought a primed part into work and measured the dry film thickness with a PosiTector 6000 N1 meter.
The recommended dry film thickness is 1.0-1.3 mils per the Akzo tech sheet.
My part measured between 0.25 and 0.8 mils.
Observations:
If you can see the shine of the metal through the primer, it is about 0.25 mils.
If you can sort of see through the primer, like barely make out streaks in the chromate or probably mill markings (if you didn't clean them off), it is about 0.5 mils.
If the coating is opaque, it is probably at least 0.7 mils.
I don't know how much Sharpie markings will bleed though as I don't leave them on.

I'm happy with the thickness on my parts since they will be well protected. I'll probably go a bit thicker when priming parts subject to wear (floorboards, etc.)

YMMV
 
Thanks very much for the information.

I have been researching this a little more and, with my lack of knowledge, assumed that AKZO primer was a particular product. Having now looked at the Akzo Nobel website I see that there are numerous different AKZO primers that look like they would be suitable, all with different specifications.

For example with regard to paint thickness, the 37092 epoxy primer recommends a thickness of 0.8-1.2 mil whereas the 37035A thickness should be 0.6-0.8 mil.

The 436-12-8 sold by Aircraft Spruce is different again.

I have emailed Akzo Nobel to ask for advice but if I can get away with the 37092 (which I know has been used on another RV) then that might be handy as it comes in smaller 3.5 litre tins in the UK.
 
Most builders use 463-12-8. I am sure some of the other products are suitable.

Again I would like to reiterate that if you are going to apply the primer so thin as to be able to see through the coating, then you are wasting time and money. A proper application thickness will be VERY opaque, and will even be smooth and semi-glossy. Application weight is .0093 lbs/ft2 at 1 mil thickness. There are older threads regarding 463-12-8 where this has been covered in agonizing detail.;)
 
Mike H said:
Most builders use 463-12-8. I am sure some of the other products are suitable.

Again I would like to reiterate that if you are going to apply the primer so thin as to be able to see through the coating, then you are wasting time and money. A proper application thickness will be VERY opaque, and will even be smooth and semi-glossy. Application weight is .0093 lbs/ft2 at 1 mil thickness. There are older threads regarding 463-12-8 where this has been covered in agonizing detail.;)
Click to expand...

Agreed. My post didn't make it clear that I shoot for opaque which is at least 0.7 mils. My test was to see what the recommended dry film thickness looks like in application. Transparent is way too thin for 463-12-8.
 
siclick33 said:
Thanks very much for the information.

I have been researching this a little more and, with my lack of knowledge, assumed that AKZO primer was a particular product. Having now looked at the Akzo Nobel website I see that there are numerous different AKZO primers that look like they would be suitable, all with different specifications.

For example with regard to paint thickness, the 37092 epoxy primer recommends a thickness of 0.8-1.2 mil whereas the 37035A thickness should be 0.6-0.8 mil.

The 436-12-8 sold by Aircraft Spruce is different again.

I have emailed Akzo Nobel to ask for advice but if I can get away with the 37092 (which I know has been used on another RV) then that might be handy as it comes in smaller 3.5 litre tins in the UK.
Click to expand...


If the UK prices follow the US Graco prices, the 2.5 liter 37902 primer kit is considerably more expen$ive than the AKZO 436-12-8 product in the 2 gallon (smaller US gallons... :) ...) kit

http://www.gracosupply.com/search?q=37092
 
I guess I should be more careful on wording transparent can be very subjective ,probably should have said opaque, good thing we have a lot of experts
 
I have heard back from my local AKZO distributor. They have recommended Aerodur HS 2118 Chromate Free primer due to my non-professional application facilities.

Does anyone have any experience as to how these chromate free primers compare to the 463-12-8 (or similar)?
 
I gave primer a lot of thought and research but when I just got busy and did it then it was no big deal and all my effort was unneeded. The 463 akzo is super easy to apply and hard as nails with just scotchbrite and Mek wipeoff for prep. It takes sandpaper to get it off and even then takes a bit of work. So I'd say just buy it and get started. I started with rattle can primers and none of them went on so easy or are as tough.
 
Mixing Mate?

Hello all,

Has anyone used these for AKZO? Do they seal well enough to maintian shelf life?

 
Syringes

I'm not spraying Akzo but for measuring I use syringes.
For big jobs I use the large liquid nourishment size.
For small jobs the little ones. Drill the tip for thick paints.
Some have issue with silicone contamination but I've not had any problems.
I also have some rubberless for Jet Flex. The reducer doesn't like the rubber syringe.
Syringes are excellent for measuring. Easy to clean and no waste.
 
Mixing Mate?

I gotta say guys these are pretty sweet!

I put this into my brand new can of AKZO primer that had completely separated and within 10 sec of back and forth and another 20 sec of forward it was a thing of beauty!

While no mixing of the harder is necessary easy pouring and less waste is awesome.

One down fall, the vapour from the harder does leak out a bit but not the primer it self. ill be keeping them in a dedicated small fridge to maintain Temp and a seal. in the future ill source some rubberized foam for a better seal

worth the 25$ CAD each id say.
 
Check the hardener can every so often, I've seen that stuff melt plastic without a lot of trouble. It would suck to have the mixing paddle melt into your can and possibly ruin the hardener :(
 
gfb said:
Check the hardener can every so often, I've seen that stuff melt plastic without a lot of trouble. It would suck to have the mixing paddle melt into your can and possibly ruin the hardener :(
Click to expand...

Very good point, iv had it in there for 5 hrs now with no effect but ill keep an eye on it for sure Thanks
 
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