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pierre smith
10-15-2015, 01:14 PM
I have a Garmin 430W and an encoded GT327 in my -10.

Adsb out is all I want. I'll use my eyes for the "in" part.

Best,

Vern
10-15-2015, 01:34 PM
My eyes are not getting better as I age. Are yours?

The ADSB planes I fly show me traffic I can't see all the time. It's scary sometimes!

Flyingleap
10-15-2015, 01:50 PM
I have had TIS_A from about 2008 and of the traffic displayed on my screen I've only "seen" about half of them, no matter how close. Sometimes my 430 alarms with a traffic alert, less than a mile away, still can't see some of them. Yes, I know, if you make a turn the traffic just might be me. A failure of the system.
Anyway, I agree, it's scary.
John

Mike H
10-15-2015, 02:39 PM
The cheapest and best way to go would be a Trig TT22 transponder. Super easy to install and use. You can get a GDL 39 later for ADSB in.

BobTurner
10-15-2015, 04:10 PM
Pierre,
I thought I replied before but I guess it did not take.
Agree with above, least expensive is to sell your 327, put in a TT22. You may also need a $100 software upgrade to your 430W so that it puts out data in Garmins ADSB+ format. The EXP UAT is close in price (you need antennas) if you want to go the UAT route. ADSBin (if you go the TT22 route) only adds $500 or so, depending on what you already have in the panel.

grubbat
10-15-2015, 05:00 PM
Ive got a similar setup. 327 and certified garmin gps. Since its only a transponder swapout, I'm thinking I'll hold off a couple more years.
cj

RobinHou
10-15-2015, 05:23 PM
NavWorx ADS600-EXP is $1,149 plus antennas, harness, TRANSMONSPE and hardware kit. The total is still less than $2,000 ($1,914 in my case).

FreeFlight RANGR 978 Lite is only $1,995 including antennas and installation kit.

I believe both above units include built-in WAAS GPS meeting ADS-B out requirement, although the OP stated he has a 430W which may need software update to talk to Trig TT22.

Unless flights outside of the U.S. are required (which require S mode), otherwise, NavWorx and FreeFlight seem to be less expensive than Trig TT22.

Flyingleap
10-15-2015, 05:43 PM
Sometimes I'm not a favorite of Garmin but in this case with a Garmin 430W
a better choice would be a Garmin 330ES transponder. It's about $1000 more
than a Trig but the software communication is the same meaning when you have problems, it's a single phone call to Garmin to sort out.

I have a Garmin 430 (not W) and a Garmin 330(not ES). My choice will be to convert them both. $5000, yep... Both have served me well, why change.

Trig manual:
Note: The TIS output and GPS input speeds are not separately
controlled on the TT21/TT22. Not all combinations of GPS input and
TIS output will be usable if the external devices operate on fixed bit
rates and are different to each other.

While this is probably not a problem, the Trig is a Scotland product and they have different rules regarding ADS-B..... I think.

John

Mike H
10-15-2015, 06:02 PM
Sometimes I'm not a favorite of Garmin but in this case with a Garmin 430W
a better choice would be a Garmin 330ES transponder. It's about $1000 more
than a Trig but the software communication is the same meaning when you have problems, it's a single phone call to Garmin to sort out.

I have a Garmin 430 (not W) and a Garmin 330(not ES). My choice will be to convert them both. $5000, yep... Both have served me well, why change.

Trig manual:
Note: The TIS output and GPS input speeds are not separately
controlled on the TT21/TT22. Not all combinations of GPS input and
TIS output will be usable if the external devices operate on fixed bit
rates and are different to each other.

While this is probably not a problem, the Trig is a Scotland product and they have different rules regarding ADS-B..... I think.

John

Well I would assume that since the Trig TT22 is STC'd for installation using the 430W as a position source I would assume there would be no problems. The Trig unit has proven to be very reliable, just ask any Dynon or AFS user.

BobTurner
10-15-2015, 07:04 PM
Why is Trig cheaper?

NavWorx ADS600-EXP is $1,149 plus antennas, harness, TRANSMONSPE and hardware kit. The total is still less than $2,000 ($1,914 in my case).

FreeFlight RANGR 978 Lite is only $1,995 including antennas and installation kit.

I believe both above units include built-in WAAS GPS meeting ADS-B out requirement, although the OP stated he has a 430W which may need software update to talk to Trig TT22.

Unless flights outside of the U.S. are required (which require S mode), otherwise, NavWorx and FreeFlight seem to be less expensive than Trig TT22.
It's because of what he already has. No need for a gps if he already has one.
TT22 from GRT (no control head, GRT Hx will control): $2200
Garmin 430W software upgrade: $100 or less
Buy ADSB-in box compatible with HX: $500 (optional)
SELL existing Garmin 327: -$900 to -$1000
Re-use antennas, coax, breakers, Net cost: $1800-$1900
EXP is not all that different but you do have to install two antennas, breakers, etc. And mode SES solution works if you ever travel somewhere (Bahamas?) where it's needed.
re Trig: the TT22 and 31 now have US STCs available when used with Garmin navigators, so yes they work.

Flyingleap
10-15-2015, 07:11 PM
Mike,
I agree, the Trig is very popular with many. I always read the manual first before any purchase. It did seem rather odd not being able to accommodate any baud rate or send receive differences. I'd rather have the same "builder" of equipment in this case and the ADS-B communication complexity. Single phone call when there is a a problem, that's all. It's just me. Sorry to offend.
John

David-aviator
10-16-2015, 08:46 AM
I have a Garmin 430W and an encoded GT327 in my -10.

Adsb out is all I want. I'll use my eyes for the "in" part.

Best,

I tend to agree Pierre.

Scanning is work but if one does it diligently you will see airplanes that pose a threat. WWII fighter pilots lived by this premise.

We are a bit spoiled, expecting an electronic scanning device (or ADS-B) to do the work for us.

BobTurner
10-16-2015, 09:15 AM
Adsb-in also gives you radar and TFRs. Sometimes those things pop up after you've departed (forest fires). And a picture is worth a 1000 words.

Mike H
10-16-2015, 09:39 AM
Mike,
I agree, the Trig is very popular with many. I always read the manual first before any purchase. It did seem rather odd not being able to accommodate any baud rate or send receive differences. I'd rather have the same "builder" of equipment in this case and the ADS-B communication complexity. Single phone call when there is a a problem, that's all. It's just me. Sorry to offend.
John

No offense taken.

rmartingt
10-18-2015, 05:23 PM
Adsb-in also gives you radar and TFRs. Sometimes those things pop up after you've departed (forest fires). And a picture is worth a 1000 words.

Yes, forget the traffic (for the moment, anyway)... the weather datalink is tremendously helpful. I can check the METAR at three different alternate field options and scope out the weather an hour ahead of me, and be laying in my new course, in less time than it takes me to look up the frequency for FSS. And I can see it right there, instead of trying to listen to someone describe it over the radio.

That said, the point of the traffic is to augment a visual scan, not replace it. Even the best of us gets the sun in our eyes, and none of us can see through the floor of our airplane (unless you've made some interesting mods).

jclark
10-18-2015, 08:21 PM
Yes, forget the traffic (for the moment, anyway)... the weather datalink is tremendously helpful. I can check the METAR at three different alternate field options and scope out the weather an hour ahead of me, and be laying in my new course, in less time than it takes me to look up the frequency for FSS. And I can see it right there, instead of trying to listen to someone describe it over the radio.

That said, the point of the traffic is to augment a visual scan, not replace it. Even the best of us gets the sun in our eyes, and none of us can see through the floor of our airplane (unless you've made some interesting mods).

Pierre,

I have a Garmin 400W (430W GPS minus the nav and comm) in the RV6 coupled with a Trig TT-22. It has its own control hed that fits into a 2 1/4" hole (or if you have appropriate EFIS equipment, it can be controlled by that.)

I have a Garmin GTN 650 in the RV8 coupled to a Trig TT-31.

I know that you said cheapest but I would say also consider the TT-31. It will cost a little more than the TT-31 and as I recall a bit less than the 330ES.

The 430W + 330ES is an obvious paring that solves all the problems. Just saying that in the same space in the panel, the TT-31 will work just fine as well.

Now to AUGMENT ...

Since installing ADS-B OUT and IN, I cnnot remember the number of times wherein even with my Mk II eyeballs focussed outside, I was NOT able to see traffic nor was I warned by ATC of traffic that SHOWED UP on the EFIS as a result of ADS-B!

Also, I find that OFTEN TIMES I monitor traffic that pops up and is coming my way but can never see it until it is within 2 MILES of me!

Finally, I had traffic coming at me (12 o'clock) and I was passing right on the edge of Madison, WI and got NO TRAFFIC advisory until the last minute. Even then I did NOT see the aircraft. I was though, prepared to evade as I say it on the EFIS.

So in summary, ADS-B IN for "augmentation" is far more valuable to me than I ever thought that it would be.

Just one person's view (or sometimes lack thereof).

James

roadrunner20
10-19-2015, 09:36 PM
After recently installing a new ads-b in & out system...

I am absolutely amazed in how much traffic is around me.
I'm flying underneath & just outside the Tampa class B.

After 2 test flights, I've sought out traffic, at a comfortable altitude below, in trying to asses when I would see the traffic knowing it's altitude & direction of flight.
I'm now thankful for the system 2 mile alerts I'm receiving. Even when I know of where traffic is coming, it's not easy to locate especially with haze.

I'm already enjoying flying with this system. BTW, I'm also using the GTX-327 for reporting output.