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RJLEWISII
12-04-2014, 05:22 AM
The insurance price sky rockets, pun intended, sorry, when you go from an RV-8 to a Rocket. I received a quote from Nations air for both.

RV-8 full coverage, 100k hull, $1300

HR II same for just me $2900. (I have zero time in the rocket or RV) Add my son, a newly minted private with only 100 hrs, mostly tail wheel and it jumps to $4500! That's a deal breaker.

I know many of you responded regarding this on my previous thread, and thanks for that. New question:

Who insures your Rockets? I'll call for another quote.

Thanks!

HFS
12-04-2014, 06:14 AM
The Rocket quote doesn't seem all that unreasonable considering your (and your son's) lack of experience in type. My Rocket insurance for the 2014-2015 year is $1733, but only for $75K hull - but I have 25 yr+, and 2500 hr of flight time in RV's/Rockets.

The $2900 quote for you as a first time flyer is a pretty normal number. I'll be surprised if you do much better - Rockets & Nuggets don't have a real good track record re/incidents-accidents.

YMMV

David Howe

Toobuilder
12-04-2014, 06:42 AM
Who insures your Rockets? I'll call for another quote...

As Dave says, your quote does not seem unreasonable. I couldn't do any better and I have lots of high performance tailwheel and RV-8 time.

I've been told however, that the first magic number for a rate reduction is 100 hours in type. You might consider flying liability only until then.

As for shopping a quote - I've been told that there are only a few companies that will touch a Rocket. If you have a quote today, it's likely your broker shopped all available providers and as a consequence your n number is locked in at that price for a month or so - no matter who you call next.

Also, don't even bother with Avemco... They don't speak Rocket.

luddite42
12-04-2014, 01:22 PM
Too bad about insurance cost because it seems the problem with the Rocket is simply the small number of aircraft in the fleet rather than anything special or challenging about operating the airplane. Looking at all the Rocket accident reports on file (since 1996), there are 17 accidents. Only 2 ground loops. 2 inflight control failures for undetermined reasons, 2 engine failures for undetermined reasons, 3 mismanaged fuel selectors, 2 low level acro, 1 undetermined in-flight loss of control, 2 engine failures from improper construction, 2 inflight structural/control failures from improper construction, and 1 deer avoidance crash into trees on takeoff. Pretty typical RV stuff, really.

flyinga
12-04-2014, 01:23 PM
Keep in mind that most ground loops are not reportable; except to the insurance company.

sailvi767
12-04-2014, 03:32 PM
The big issue I was told by a insurance broker who owns a rocket is the number of Harmon Rockets that have ended up on their nose. He stated over 25% have had a prop strike. The F1 rocket does not have the nose over issue however sadly gets lumped in with the Harmon.

George

F1Boss
12-04-2014, 05:36 PM
We recently produced an engine mount to fit an HR2 in NZ that uses the F1 leg geometry, along with the gear leg design. This will give that gent the same tailweight as the F1 - 5% of the EW, or about 60lbs. Typical HR2 tailweights are 30-35lbs or so.

We can make a permanent fixture to produce these parts if need arises. About $4K before your finished with all the required new bits, incl new production Ti legs.

Pazmany's well-respected landing gear design book mentions that a t/w ship should have 5% EW on the tail, measured in level flight attitude.

While I can't do a dang thing about the insurance costs, finally I CAN do something about the nose-over tendencies of the HR2. Some assembly required.

And yes - that tendency is the reason for the higher Rocket insurance that ALL of us have to pay. Try as I might, I could not talk 'em out of it.

Carry on!
Mark

smokyray
12-06-2014, 06:15 AM
The insurance price sky rockets, pun intended, sorry, when you go from an RV-8 to a Rocket. I received a quote from Nations air for both.

RV-8 full coverage, 100k hull, $1300

HR II same for just me $2900. (I have zero time in the rocket or RV) Add my son, a newly minted private with only 100 hrs, mostly tail wheel and it jumps to $4500! That's a deal breaker.

I know many of you responded regarding this on my previous thread, and thanks for that. New question:

Who insures your Rockets? I'll call for another quote.

Thanks!

In 20 years of RVating I have had three insurers. Nation Air is so far the best.

One reason Rockets are more costly is simple numbers. There are over 1000 RV8's flying. FAA records show there are less than 150 Rockets (both types) actively flying. My HR2 was the third to fly way back when. Despite my clean record and 5K of TW time, every year my quote increased 50%.Along with it's type brethren, nearly 8000 RV's give the insurers a much wider database to cover, and have lower premiums.

UNfortunately, Rockets aren't part of the clan.

V/R
Smokey

N941WR
12-06-2014, 07:35 AM
The big issue I was told by a insurance broker who owns a rocket is the number of Harmon Rockets that have ended up on their nose. He stated over 25% have had a prop strike. The F1 rocket does not have the nose over issue however sadly gets lumped in with the Harmon.

George

Maybe Mark should rename that F1's? Say, drop "Rocket".

Toobuilder
12-06-2014, 08:34 AM
Or the builder can just call it an RV-4 to get in on the benefit train.

Kevin Horton
12-06-2014, 07:38 PM
Or the builder can just call it an RV-4 to get in on the benefit train.

Why spend money on insurance if you are going to give the insurance company an easy way to deny coverage when you need it?

Toobuilder
12-07-2014, 01:59 PM
Since every single Homebuilt is unique, it's a point you could easily argue. So long as you were honest about the engine and equipment installed, who's to say it's an RV, a Rocket, or a "Whizbang Special"?