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g zero
11-22-2014, 07:45 AM
Sx 300 vs Rocket , if one could rise from the dead what would you choose ?
Would a RV8 fuse be a good starting point for a new go fast wing and tail ?

Jerry Cochran
11-22-2014, 02:49 PM
http://www.aopa.org/News-and-Video/All-News/2012/January/1/Swearingen-SX300-Serious-fun

Same wingspan but tapered) as RV7. 300hp, clean stall 91k landing config 75k. I wonder what length of runway would be appropriate for landing...Coming down final @ 75x1.3=97.5kts (112mph) Not for an old feller like me...

We did have one land at 2S6 a few years back flown by a former fighter Jock (F-104 he said) So I guess 2755' is plenty. Used about half that on TO.

Luv to catch a ride in one..

Jerry

blueflyer
11-22-2014, 03:09 PM
That was a good read about the SX300. The pilot had better have all the rust knocked off prior to hopping in and lighting the fire on this one!

GeneL
11-22-2014, 04:43 PM
Check flight aware for N301E look at speed graph 309k! Harry said he had a 35k tail wind, that still works out to 274k, I've been with him going faster. My 7A is 100k slower... OH WELL

B25Flyer
11-28-2014, 08:56 AM
There are two reasons why I have a Rocket instead of an Sx-300. The wing loading is really high. This means the stall speed is really high so an off airport landing is going to be a really bad day. And it has zero tolerance for ice.

And the landing gear on the SX is not exactly bulletproof...

If Mark built a retract taildragger, and raised the Vne 20 ktas with some flutter testing to support it, that would be my next airplane....

pierre smith
11-28-2014, 09:13 AM
There have also been quite a few fatalities in the SX. I have a friend at Spruce Creek who has all the stats.

Best,

rvmills
11-28-2014, 12:07 PM
There are a couple SX-300s that fly in SARL, and a few more that are regulars at AirVenture Cup. Beautiful airplanes, and all very fast 300mph +/-. I've also seen one that was pretty rough around the edges, so like all E-AB, quality in = quality out.

I haven't flown an SX yet, but in talking to the pilots, while sleek and fast, they are arguably less of an all-around performer than the Rocket, or the RV-8 that the OP is building. Similar to comparing a Legacy to a Rocketůspeed vs all-around utility. Concur with Doug about the SX gear. Not as narrow or short-coupled as the Questair Venture, but a bit on that side of things. Nonetheless, beautiful, fast airplanes!

With respect to the OP's question, the 8 fuse as a platform for a go-fast wing and tail? Depends on how fastůas Doug said, a Retrac Rocket would be awesome, but higher speeds require good engineering and testing. I know Mark has his sleeves rolled up on this, and there is a lot to consider, from strength to competition for wing space (between fuel tankage and gear wells, etc). Lot's to work through, but it'd be a pretty plane too! :)

Cheers,
Bob

SteinAir
11-28-2014, 05:39 PM
There are two reasons why I have a Rocket instead of an Sx-300. The wing loading is really high. This means the stall speed is really high so an off airport landing is going to be a really bad day. And it has zero tolerance for ice.

And the landing gear on the SX is not exactly bulletproof...

If Mark built a retract taildragger, and raised the Vne 20 ktas with some flutter testing to support it, that would be my next airplane....

The SX is one very gorgeous airplane, but if you ever get deep into the guts of one you'll find out how insanely complicated they are (crazy linkages for just about everything). The gear is a Rube Goldberg thing if you've ever seen one, so are many of the other systems in it. They are incredibly difficult to build and put together (probably tied or even leads the S-51 in relation to kit complexity for a metal aircraft), and as such maintenance is of critical importance. Somehow Swearingen broke the laws of physics and literally managed to cram 10lbs of "stuff" into a 5 gallon pail with that plane. :)

I still admire them, have worked on them, know a couple of folks who've built them (there weren't many completed to begin with, and even fewer folks who actually built them). I don't know if there is really room to modify that particular airplane very much for mass production (or re-introduction), I think it'd really just need to be a clean sheet design.

Anyway, not much to add other than I'll be blunt - too much airplane for me. I respect them, I respect/admire those who have built them and fly them, but I also know very well about their Achilles heel's that Doug mentions above (sadly).

Cheers,
Stein

F1Boss
11-28-2014, 06:35 PM
"If Mark built a retract taildragger, and raised the Vne 20 ktas with some flutter testing to support it, that would be my next airplane...."

Heh-heh. That's quite a throw-down, if I do say so myself. FYI I do not take trade-ins, even of they ARE RED.

Sorry for the thread drift, fellas. Yes, the SX-300 is a looker, and it's fast. There are other considerations, ya know.

Carry on!
Mark

f1rocket
11-30-2014, 06:20 AM
"If Mark built a retract taildragger, and raised the Vne 20 ktas with some flutter testing to support it, that would be my next airplane...."

Heh-heh. That's quite a throw-down, if I do say so myself. FYI I do not take trade-ins, even of they ARE RED.

Sorry for the thread drift, fellas. Yes, the SX-300 is a looker, and it's fast. There are other considerations, ya know.

Carry on!
Mark

I've got a fat checkbook and the time, and if the Feds get rid of the third class medical thing, I'm all over this. However, what I don't have is A KIT TO BUY! No, a real kit. Not a dream, not a promise, not a deposit on a maybe one day kit, a REAL KIT. "If you build it, we will come!" - Anon.

My Rocket was the best airplane I ever owned. I'd love to build just one more before I go.

Raymo
11-30-2014, 09:11 PM
http://www.aopa.org/News-and-Video/All-News/2012/January/1/Swearingen-SX300-Serious-fun

Same wingspan but tapered) as RV7. 300hp, clean stall 91k landing config 75k. I wonder what length of runway would be appropriate for landing...Coming down final @ 75x1.3=97.5kts (112mph) Not for an old feller like me...

We did have one land at 2S6 a few years back flown by a former fighter Jock (F-104 he said) So I guess 2755' is plenty. Used about half that on TO.

Luv to catch a ride in one..

Jerry

Was it a dark blue Rocket and retired Marine? If so, his home base is 2700'.

vfrazier
12-01-2014, 11:38 AM
What Randy said....

My Rocket was the best plane that I have ever owned, or likely will ever own. I'd consider another one someday.

And I have owned quite a few nice airplanes.

F1Boss
12-01-2014, 11:54 AM
I've got a fat checkbook and the time, and if the Feds get rid of the third class medical thing, I'm all over this. However, what I don't have is A KIT TO BUY! No, a real kit. Not a dream, not a promise, not a deposit on a maybe one day kit, a REAL KIT. "If you build it, we will come!" - Anon.

My Rocket was the best airplane I ever owned. I'd love to build just one more before I go.

I won't do it (produce more kits) by myself. If you and Vince decide to help, that would be a good start. Don't worry - we'll need more than the 3 of us. Are ya feelin' lucky? Well, are ya?

With 1400+ hits on this thread, there must be SOME interest in the kits...

The one I am working on is strictly for personal use...unless someone walks up with their checkbook out - at about the same time I get tired if it.:roll eyes:

Carry on!
Mark

hrhodes2@comcast.net
12-01-2014, 04:24 PM
I shared with Mark my solution to the SX300 conundrum. I texted him pics of my current build. I would do it here if I could figure out how :-(

Hint: N360KT reserved, TIO540AE2A with A/I and 600+ horsepower. Genius who ginned up the FWF made Jeff Lavelle's package at Reno. Same airplane behind the firewall too! +9, -6 G one solid wing, decent stall, two aft facing jumpseats to make it a real 2 seater and a fake short range 4 seater, inogen oxygen, berringer wheels/brakes, removable freon air, 2 screen G3X, 300KT cruise but I will stop there.

Last airplane for me. No it won't be for sale. The Rocket was a terrific sport plane. Looked good. My wife hated the back of my head. I hated the hershey bar sport wing. It was a very nice view up front and a spiffy performer.

All these experimentals crush certified machines, I tried that too and it was a BUST.

See you all at Reno 2016.

f1rocket
12-01-2014, 04:40 PM
I won't do it (produce more kits) by myself. If you and Vince decide to help, that would be a good start. Don't worry - we'll need more than the 3 of us. Are ya feelin' lucky? Well, are ya?

Make me an offer. (and it's got to be more than just writing checks)

Jerry Cochran
12-01-2014, 04:58 PM
Was it a dark blue Rocket and retired Marine? If so, his home base is 2700'.

IIRC he was from Daytona Beach FL and AirForce.... Oh, and it was red. Oh, and it was an S-300 :-)

Jerry

smokyray
12-03-2014, 02:58 PM
Sx 300 vs Rocket , if one could rise from the dead what would you choose ?
Would a RV8 fuse be a good starting point for a new go fast wing and tail ?

G,
I "ve been fortunate to have flown all three airplanes in question. I owned an early Harmon Rocket for six years and 1000 hours. I traded rides with an SX driver who flew to work in the Bay Area for many years. It is an amazing kit airplane, for the qualified pilot. As mentioned above, it's not a short grass strip machine nor are parts readily available. Only 48 sets of landing gear were built for the 48 original kits. (22 flying worldwide) www.sx300group.org

A better go fast machine IMHO is the Glasair III. I shared a hangar with one and flew it many times. With long wing tips installed it had 1200 mile max range at 200TAS and 600 mile range with short wing at 230. 250 KIAS on the deck was easily achievable. Handles great and parts are still available.
In comparison, My HR2 could launch from my 1400" turf strip, max range cruise at 180TAS at 10gph for 4.5 hours with reserve. It would indicate 210 KIAS WOT on the deck and a hoot to fly overall. It's the closest airplane to the F16 that would shoehorn into my strip! It ain't"t cheap though...

It all depends on your mission, and your budget.
In a fighter in combat, speed is life. In personal airplanes, speed is $$$. :)

V/R
Smokey

Ps: cheapest knot/dollar ratio is still the Wittman Tailwind.