Rebuilding an 0-540

My father is building an RV10 as a retirement project. This is his first build. Although he's had his private pilot license for 40+ years and has owned light singles in the past, GA is not the focus of his life and he hasn?t been active for nearly 10 years.

I fly for the airlines and have somewhat lost touch with GA over the years and don?t feel fully qualified to guide him in this process.

That being said, my father has located a Lycoming 0-540 from a wrecked Comanche that he is considering buying to rebuild for his RV project. The Comanche crashed into trees killing the pilot about 8 years ago. The crash was not the result of engine failure. The pilot was attempting to land at night on a runway not approved for night ops and subsequently collided with tress on approach. Witnesses at the time supposedly described hearing the engine ?rev up? before it quit. The prop separated so it?s possible/likely that the engine over-sped before shutting down. The mags are a loss as well as one of the jugs which had fin damage, both as a result of contact with the firewall.

The person who has the engine for sale said the crank has been magnifluxed and shows no sign of cracks. It was also checked for straightness and is true. The case has been visually inspected and shows no cracks. This will all be reverified by a third party prior to sale.

My father plans to replace all of the jugs (he has some kind of ceramic aftermarket jug in mind) and install an electronic ignition system as well as fuel injection. All of the remaining parts would be magnifluxed as necessary before sale and the case would be professionally examined for cracks.

Assuming the engine can be had for a reasonable price, I?m curious what would be required to sell some of the parts (the 5 remaining jugs for instance) w/o misrepresenting them? In other words, who can legally inspect parts and label them as serviceable? Can this be done by any A&P or does it need to be an AI? Or someone else?

Obviously all of the rings and bearings would be replaced. I?m also assuming it would be smart to replace the camshaft.

I spoke with the seller and asked whatever questions I could come up with. The prop governor ?appears? to be okay. I don?t know what?s involved with inspecting/rebuilding one of these. The seller has ?lot?s of starters sitting around? and I think the alternator was also a loss. The carb has a crack that the seller thinks can be repaired, but again, my father wants to convert this to an injected engine.

If we can get this engine cheap, and sell some of the unused parts, it might be worth doing.

I?m interested in getting some perspective.

TIA.

Air UPSer

Be Careful

Man, I hope you know what you're getting into. Basically, the only parts I'd keep are the case halves (if they pass) and the crank. EVERYTHING else ought to be replaced.

I can't answer your specific questions but I can provide you with a little bit of perspective. One of my good friends is a seasoned mechanic for the airlines. He's built two RVs. Know what he does for engines? Buys them from Bart at Aerosport Power because he cannot rebuild them for much less than what Bart sells them for. The caveat here is that he does it RIGHT, not cutting corners.

Do you really want to spend $75K to $95K on a RV-10 and then scrimp on the engine? I understand that everyone can't buy new engines, but I think you'd be better off buying a high time, but operational engine to save money, than trying to rebuild a wrecked one.

My friend Vince rebuilt his IO-540 for his F1H-Rocket. His web site is:
http://www.usi.edu/science/chemistry/vfrazier/page1.html. Read about his experience. He did it successfully but I think he spent around $22K. That's cheaper than a reman from Bart but not if you put any value on your time.

Good luck on your choice. You can re-build one if you have the time, tools, and inclination. They are not that difficult to do, but don't kid yourself that you're going to save a bucket of money because you probably won't.

Any A& P can legally inspect and return any of the parts in or on the engine the engine to service. Many may not feel comfortable doing it, as they may have limited experience working on engines of this type. Some perspective on you proposed project: The driving cost behind any engine overhaul is the parts that go into the engine. When you have an engine with the obscene history you perspective engine has...(sitting for 8 years following a prop strike at power, that was hard enough to separate the prop from the engine) you have to expect that the parts requirement at overhaul will be more then a routine run out engine that is still currently in service and needs overhaul. If you get this core for the right price and then add in the parts that will make it into a routine run out core you now have you acquisition cost for the engine. If that total is in touch with the current purchase price of a run out 540 you should be pretty close to a good deal after overhaul. If it isn't near the price of a normal run out 540 you are going to lose. You mention that the seller will get the remaining parts in the engine-inspected before the sale. This is a win situation for you! You then remove the variable of knowing if you will need to replace those components. Having that knowledge and knowing what you want to install on the engine, will allow you, with a little homework and arithmetic, to calculate the entire cost of the overhaul pretty closely, before even purchasing the core. To me, if that number is right, and you are confident in your ability to actually do the work, go for it and if the number isn?t right, walk away from it.
Good Luck,
Mahlon
"The opinions and information provided in this and all of my posts are hopefully helpful to you. Please use the information provided responsibly and at you own risk."

IO 540 engine

I don't know if you're still interested in getting responses to your questions about overhauling a wrecked engine.
I have done several, and believe me, you can't save very much $$ on doing it that way. As a previous poster said, I'd just take the case halves and the crank (if it is yellow tagged), the rods, cam followers and replace everything else. Be sure to get it all yellow tagged!
Good luck to your daddy.
RV10jim

WOW that is a real story

Air UPSer said:

That being said, my father has located a Lycoming 0-540 from a wrecked Comanche............crashed into trees killing the pilot about 8 years ago..................Witnesses at the time supposedly described hearing the engine ?rev up? before it quit. The prop separated so it?s possible/likely that the engine over-sped before shutting down. The mags are a loss as well as one of the jugs which had fin damage, both as a result of contact with the firewall.

The person who has the engine for sale said the crank has been magnifluxed and shows no sign of cracks. It was also checked for straightness and is true. The case has been visually inspected and shows no cracks. This will all be reverified by a third party prior to sale.

My father plans to replace all of the jugs (he has some kind of ceramic aftermarket jug in mind) and install an electronic ignition system as well as fuel injection. All of the remaining parts would be magnifluxed as necessary before sale and the case would be professionally examined for cracks.

Assuming the engine can be had for a reasonable price, I?m curious what would be required to sell some of the parts (the 5 remaining jugs for instance) w/o misrepresenting them?

Obviously all of the rings and bearings would be replaced. I?m also assuming it would be smart to replace the camshaft.

If we can get this engine cheap, and sell some of the unused parts, it might be worth doing.

I?m interested in getting some perspective.

TIA. Air UPSer

Click to expand...

Yikes that is quite a story, but at least you know what you are getting. Yea the whole IF WE CAN GET IT CHEAP is a big IF?

I like your we will check everything before buying but that really means getting it cleaned, inspected which is $$$$. You would be out that at least if its bad. The Magnaflux of the crank means nothing unless its yellow tagged by a reputable repair station.

Usually you just replace all jugs with new assy, they come with pistons rings valves and so on. About $6,000. All the machine work and inspections? I don't know lets throw out $6,000 may be a little more. The Fuel injection? $4,000. $2,000 to $2,500 for dual electronic ignition or one + mag overhaul. Add another heap of money for everything else, plus what you pay for the core? Total Wild guess $25,000-$30,000. Don't forget all the work and aggravation. If you have it rebuilt add another $4,000-$5,000? The price is almost the same as new outright.

Lets assume everything is usable and the "prop separated" makes me nervous, but if it inspected carefully I suppose that is OK. A new crank, I'm guessing, is about $5,000 to $6,000. (A 4 cylinder Lyc crank is $4,500-$5,000)

Now go to Aerospace's and you can get a O540 to IO540 for $39k - $40k. Van wants $40,000 for a new Lyc.

So you can stand to save at least $10,000 OH the used engine, over a new engine with warranty ready to go and tested.

I overhauled an accident O360 myself and came out fine. I'm not trying to scare you, but that's quite a story on that engine, prop separation, rammed into firewall, pretty traumatic. Do you really want to fly behind that with 3 passengers?

Like you said IF its cheap (unlikely people think their junk is priceless) and you can verify 100% to your satisfaction (2nd party) that the parts are good. That's a lot of IF's. Its the RISK v. REWARD thing. Take a chance and save money or possible lose. I just get a warm fuzzy over all new parts with a warranty. If you overhaul yourself its on you if it blows up. On the other hand with all the scrutiny you'll give the salvaged parts, proven parts if you will, it's likely to safe and reliable. If it was under power, who knows about the crank and rods? I'm not and expert, just been down the road your starting or think of starting. Talk to some engine experts and tell them the story. Advising you I would be cautious.